e Census of 1851 {LORDS} Religious Worship. 32 arising out of the debates that took place in that House, he did think it was made out that the returns as to the Church were below the numbers that ought to have been given. As to the Dissenters, he likewise shrank from giving any official opinion. The right rev. Prelates, no doubt, seemed to have made out a strong case, and the Dissenters, he had no doubt, would take some public opportunity of telling their own story, and the public would judge between the two. Some of the facts mentioned by the right rev. Prelate were strong, others were not so. His statement, for example, as to the weather having given an advantage to Dissenters was not a strong fact, for both would be equally affected by this, and the weather no doubt varied in different parts of the country. As to the Roman Catholics, he would only observe, with reference to the number of sittings they possessed, that their services were short and more frequent than ours, and therefore it was obvious that their chapels gave accommodation to more persons than Protestant churches did, where the services were longer and the attendances more rare. He hoped he had said enough to show that it was impossible for the Government to accede to the Motion. At the same time, he was glad the statement had been made, that it might be considered by the public. Such answers as could be given would no doubt be put forward by the Dissenters, and the public would then be able to judge more accurately upon the subject. He wished to say one word as to what had fallen from a noble Earl (the Earl of Ellenborough) the other day on the subject of these returns. The noble Earl had said that the returns were perfectly useless, and that not twenty persons looked at them. Now, this was not borne out by the facts, for he had been informed that of one edition of these returns 21,000 copies were sold almost as soon as published. With respect to the increase of expense attending the Census, the former Census having cost 23,500l., while the latter cost 170,000l., the noble Earl was mistaken. The mistake was a natural one for him to make, for he was probably not aware that the former Census was paid entirely out of the poor rate; and that while it cost 51. 9s. per thousand, the last cost 5l. 4s. per thousand, being a saving of 5s. per thousand, while much more information had been obtained. The estimate was 150,000l., but only 127,000l. was expended, thus Imost legitimately brought this der the consideration of their and the only regret he had in that in refusing to accede to , he should seem to place himposition to the representatives rch of England in that House, n a matter on which they called mple and truthful information to y at large. But, at the same hought he could give reasons not desirable to accede to the the returns moved for by the Prelate. The fact was, that the ce was now shut up, and their losed; the returns were also ous, amounting to nearly 40,000 e quite accurate, 37,381. But reason why he could not well onsistently with good faith, to tion of these returns, was, that ular printed and circulated by The Secretary of State, it was it was not intended that all the in the returns should be pubUnder these circumstances, it npossible for the Government to he Motion. He heartily agreed e right rev. Prelate who spoke s to the regret which he felt that legal arrangements did not exist Census was taken. He thought most desirable that information public were so anxious to have e been made compulsory, and ful answer declared to be penal. e time he could not help feeling iscussions in that House upon t of the Secretary of State in overstepping the bounds of lesending these queries with the had to some extent caused the ained of, because it increased ngness of district clergymen to returns, and this naturally prounfavourable impression as to rs belonging to the Established His right rev. Friend did not question against the Census Of manner in which its duties had ormed, but his complaint was, e one hand, the Church of Engas did not give a sufficient statee numbers attending places of belonging to the Established hile, on the other hand, the ttending the Dissenting chapels gerated. It was impossible for e an official opinion on this subfrom the facts he had stated, Granville at which had been d that the returns House in Committee. Clause 1. leaving a considerable sum to be returned to the Treasury. It was necessary to state these facts, as it would create an unfounded prejudice against the manner of doing the business if the statements which had been made remained uncontradicted. He might add, in justice to the Registrar General, that he had been informed by the head of his department, that in his conduct of the whole business he showed great powers of administration and great care for the public interest in every possible way. THE BISHOP OF ST. DAVID'S said, that in Wales, owing to one portion of the members of the Church of England being Welsh and the other English, of two services performed on the same day one was performed in Welsh and the other in English, therefore only one-half the congregation of a church attended each service. This did not apply to the Dissenters, whose congregations were generally all of one country, and, therefore, all attended each service. THE BISHOP OF OXFORD said, that after what had fallen from his noble Friend (Earl Granville) he could not of course press for these returns, but he thought that the promise which had been referred to was one which ought not to have been given, as it was a direct temptation to an unscrupulous person to send inaccurate returns. He was convinced that no provision could meet the difficulty arising from taking the returns of the people attending the churches and chapels on a certain known day, as it would by both sides be considered a trial of strength, and would be no proof of the real religious state of the districts. Therefore, if this information was to be obtained again, he most earnestly trusted that the returns would be taken in some other way than from the attendance in places of worship on a notified Sunday. Motion, by leave of the House, withdrawn. House adjourned to Thursday next. MR. SERJEANT SHEE said, his object, in moving that the Chairman should report progress, was to endeavour to induce the Government and the right hon. and learned Gentleman the Member for the University of Dublin (Mr. Napier) to defer all legislation upon these important Bills until the next Session, because, at that late period of the Session, it was utterly impossible to do justice to those measures. Ireland was at the present time in a greater state of prosperity than it had enjoyed for a long period; and there was not that immediate urgency for passing a measure of this description this year, which undoubtedly there appeared to have been some years ago. They could, therefore, afford to wait for some time, to have the measures gravely considered and matured; and it was far better to adopt that course than to take up the worse part of the code introduced by the right hon. and learned Gentleman, and pass it into a law this Session. To show that it was utterly impossible to pass those Bills at present, he might mention that the hon. and learned Member for the county of Wexford (Mr. M'Mahon) had thirty-four Amendments to move to the Landlord and Tenant Bill, and that the right hon. and learned Member for the University of Dublin had given notice of 156 Amendments. And on the Leasing Powers Bill there were forty-five Amendments to be moved by its original proposer. The notices of these Amendments had been only given on the preceding day, and there was not sufficient time to give them the consideration they absolutely required. When the right hon. and learned Gentleman the Member for the University of Dublin had brought forward those Land Bills, he made a prayer to Almighty God at the end of his speech, as he often did, for the success of the whole; and he (Serjeant Shee) did not see how the right hon. and learned Gentleman could now come forward and ask the House to pass the Landlord and Tenant Bill, and Leasing Powers Bill, without the Tenants' Compensation Bill. A Committee had been appointed on the subject last Session, and though he would not say it was an unfair Committee, he would have preferred a Committee of English and Scotch gentlemen who understood what the just rights of the people were, and, above all, who detested the idea of a potato estate with mud cabins for their tenantry. The Bill C go that the Bilis. The t had stood seeing that E said, that sc of justice temanated, the Government last Session | the notion that it would afford a remedy pensation to tenants for im- for the improvement of land in Ireland contained a sound principle, was the most preposterous that ever was have been capable of future entertained. When he first went to Ireut unfortunately the House of land, at about twenty years of age, he was hrown out the Tenants' Im- surprised at the difference between the Compensation Bill in a House residences of the country gentlemen and nty-five Members, eleven or the squalor and misery about them. He hom were short-sighted Irish thought he was not wrong in stating that rectly interested in the ques- the right hon. and learned Gentleman, in s not endurable, and was cal- influencing a noble Lord of great ability ring the Constitution of the and promise in the other House (Lord contempt, that a few Irish Donoughmore) to introduce the Landlord another House should thus set and Tenant Bill in opposition to the meaiberate opinion of that House sure introduced by Government last year, eading statesmen of the coun- had done his best to strangle the Tew the Committee were asked nants' Improvement Compensation Bill. stringent clauses of these two He would oppose the right hon. and learnfore it without the compensat- ed Gentleman's proposition to the utmost, of the Tenants' Improvements and he trusted the Government would not on Bill. He hoped, however, lend its assistance to a project which was ›vernment would not weary in inconsistent with the whole tenor of their and would not be deterred from lives as public men, and inconsistent with or supporting a measure em- the course they thought proper to pursue same principle of justice to last year. If the Bills were agreed to, it the obstinacy of those who re- would be the most absurd piece of legislaa fair principle. He believed tion which had ever insulted the good sense e Government only passed a and liberty of the subject, and he called wers Bill and a Landlord and upon Government and the House to join 1, without accompanying them with him in preventing the passing of such s' compensation measure, they a measure. - satisfactorily settle the vexed the relations of landlord and reland, whilst they would incur m and contempt by legislating nefit of the landlords, and enecting the interests and just the tenants of Ireland. He hoped that the whole of the s subject now before the House eferred till next Session, when have proper time to consider to deal with the right hon. and tleman's (Mr. Napier's) numeIments. [The hon. and learned then proceeded to examine the visions of the two Bills under on, contending that they were fatal objection by their failure. e the principle of just compenprotection to tenants.] The se of the Leasing Powers Bill s opinion, most inadequate to interest of the occupier. The of these Bills professed to be encouraging agricultural im; but they introduced no proly calculated to attain that end. Leasing Powers Bill, though much in the Bill that was good, Serjeant Shee MR. M MAHON said, he should support the Motion of the hon. and learned Serjeant, for he considered that it was impossible, with the slightest justice to the tenants of Ireland, to legislate at the present moment on this question. He trusted that Government would not go on with these Bills this Session. MR. KIRK said, there were fifteen or sixteen pages of Amendments which were proposed to be made in these Bills, and it was impossible for the House fully to consider them this Session. Moreover, the people of Ireland had not had time to consider the Bills. Under these circumstances he thought it would be better to postpone them. LORD NAAS said, he thought it would be convenient if Government would now state the course they intended to pursue with regard to these Bills. MR. J. O'CONNELL said, he agreed with the hon. and learned Serjeant that it would be better that there should be no legislation than to have these two Bills; but he deeply deplored that there was to be no efficient legislation this Session. The good crops which were now on the land would be used by the tenants as the means ment they found ever from a satisi estion? The tena t to expect legi ; so also, in shor et in that country. se which the G He charged her fairly nor ho themselves to des at rear, but they ain in Committee u e of that House unt had nearly arrived a the impossible to procee A similar cours rear. Was there was there not? Coul of that House attem on of this importance - tseglnging it to a succ Bot. There were to would be glad retance of success ho had it in their Fest of the day, and The of emigrating, so that the country would had attempted nothing of the sort. lose more of its people and capital. He responsibility of doing it lay upon the Goimplored Government not to commit them-vernment, and the Government of the Earl selves to these Bills. The Bills of last of Derby had acknowledged that responsiSession contained many good provisions, bility, and applied themselves on the earliand if Government had stood by those Bills est occasion to the endeavour satisfactorily they would have done much to settle this to discharge it. But the Government of question. He would also appeal to the Gentlemen sitting opposite were chargeright hon. and learned Member for the able with the grossest and most censurable University of Dublin and the Irish Con- neglect. He now called upon them to tell servative Members not to attempt to pro- the Committee frankly, did they support ceed with the Bills, seeing that they would these Bills or did they not? Would they not settle the question. go on with them, or was it their intention to shelve them, and so put off the settlement of the question to a future that might never arrive? He condemned their conduct as trifling with the House and the country, as well as with the great and important interests that were at stake. successors MR. CONOLLY said, that so far from looking upon this question simply as a landlords' question, without taking into account the question of justice to the tenantry, he had always been disinclined to give his assent to any measure, from whatever quarter it emanated, that was not based on full justice to the tenant MR. J. D. FITZGERALD said, he must class. He regretted that the Government contend that the Committee to whom the of the Earl of Derby had not had an Bills had been referred had faithfully peropportunity afforded them of settling the formed their duty, and any delay that question, convinced as he was that they had occurred was not attributable to that were sincere and honest in their desire House, or to the Government, but to anto effect that object. Indeed, he believed other place. He maintained that these that, if they had the same chance allow- were not Government Bills, but the Bills ed them which had been given to their of the right hon. and learned Gentleman through two Sessions of Parlia- (Mr. Napier). They all hoped that the ment, they would have brought it to a set-present Session would come to an early tlement ere this. And he thought he was close, and it was utterly impossible to disentitled to ask the Government to explain cuss Bills which came down in such a how it was that at the end of a second mutilated shape, and with compensating Session of Parliament they found them- clauses that were a delusion. He would selves as far as ever from a satisfactory recommend that the Bills should be withsolution of the question? The tenantry of drawu, and that the duty and responsibility Ireland had a right to expect legislation of future legislation on this subject should with regard to it; so also, in short, had attach to the Government. It was abevery other interest in that country. But dicating the functions of Government to what was the course which the Govern- leave such highly important Bills in the ment had adopted? He charged them hands of private Members. He trusted with acting neither fairly nor honestly. that next Session the Government would They first pledged themselves to deal with bring in measures on this subject upon the question last year, but they allowed their own responsibility. the Bills to remain in Committee upstairs and on the table of that House until the end of the Session had nearly arrived, and then it became impossible to proceed further with them. A similar course had been pursued this year. Was there a Government or was there not? Could any private Member of that House attempt to take up a question of this importance with any hope of conducting it to a successful issue? Certainly not. There were many private Members who would be glad to do so if they saw any chance of success; but the only persons who had it in their power were the Government of the day, and they MR. BELLEW said, he must deny that the Bills were now those of the right hon. and learned Gentleman (Mr. Napier). True, their substantive matter was first introduced by the right hon. and learned Gentleman, to whom the credit was due for what little good remained in them; but in the mutilated condition in which they appeared before the Committee, he utterly denied that they were the right hon. and learned Gentleman's Bills. The Duke of Argyll was the man who, in another place, moved the third reading of the Bills; and if they were not now Government Bills, at least by adoption, he could ind what Government Bills | expressed a wish that the Bills should not proceed further during the present Session. YOUNG said, that if these What he had done was this: he had enen Government Bills, he did deavoured to obtain from his noble Friend to say that they would not who regulated the business of the Governoposed for the consideration of ment in that House such precedence for it that period of the Session. the consideration of these Bills as would ssure hon. Members opposite enable the right hon. and learned Gentlecould have been fairer than man to go on with them; and when the aken by the Government upon noble Lord the Member for Coleraine (Lord or more courteous to the right Naas) asked him to say what were the inarned Member for the Univer- tentions of the Government, surely those lin (Mr. Napier). The Bills intentions were sufficiently explained by originated in that right hon. the fact that Government had given up this 1 Gentleman's skill and ability, morning to the right hon. and learned he (Sir J. Young) came into Gentleman to press forward the Bills, ok them up and forwarded them which he contended were still in his hands. eans in his power; but he had If there were no hope of carrying them ed the merit to himself of hav- during the present Session, he did not ed them. During the last Ses- think it would be fair or right to press rliament a Committee was ap- them on the House. [The right hon. Baconsider the Bills, and they were ronet was proceeding to speak of Mr. Serfully discussed in that Commit-jeant Shee's Tenant Right Bill, of which in the Session they were sent he said he had never been the supporter, other House, where they were when his attention was directed by the rge of by the Duke of New- Irish Solicitor General to the clock, which at it was found impossible to indicated the near approach of the hour of in the course of that Session. four, the time appointed for the suspension hear!" Hon. Members cried of the morning sitting. He thereupon The Bills he alluded to were the abruptly resumed his seat; and Mr. Ñâand Tenant Bill, the Leasing PIER rose to address the Committee.] nd also, be it remembered, the Compensation Bill. Having been cond time in the House of Lords, n resolved by that House to send Select Committee at the comat of the present Session. The s, that two new Bills were proe Landlord and Tenant Bill, and ng Powers Bill-both bearing a mblance to the Bills of last Sesunaccompanied by any Tenants' tion Bill; and he was bound to t these two Bills by themselves unsatisfactory to the people of case they were not accompaCompensation Bill. As far as vent they were good. He believandlord and Tenant Bill was a olidation of the law. The Leasrs Bill also was a very good meataken by itself, would be a great ent on the existing law. But O take these for a whole code? ey legislate on a part of the only? Would that be acceptable -ple of Ireland? He thought it t. As far as he knew, every mber who supported the Governat House had come to him and Bellew SIR JOHN YOUNG protested that he had not completed his speech, and had sat down merely because he understood the hour for adjournment had arrived. MR. MAGUIRE said, that it was a THE CHAIRMAN held, however, that Mr. NAPIER then rose and said, he [At this point in the right hon. and learned Gentleman's address, four o'clock, having arrived, Mr. BOUVERIE vacated the chair.] House resumed. COUNT PAHLEN-RUSSIAN SUBJECTS MR. I. BUTT: Sir, I have given notice Canadian Clergy to this evening do I wish to a don during eminent Russ ing that ques permit me t I allude is a ed freely in societ asion of the law, an wish to know whether on of the Governme |