nice examination of crim. con. transactions, and in the clucidations of subjects of divorce and separation à mensa et thoro.

The Attorney General pressed the necessity of an immediate decision by the committee. With respect to the appoint- YEAS ment of a committee by ballot, it had been the uniform practice of our ances tors and the present was not the moment to treat it with disrespect.

Mr. Bankes said, that in the present crisis of the country it was very indifferent to him what committee was appointed, so that the question could be properly and truly examined; because he trusted that a committee of that House, whether nominated in the House or chosen by ballot, would do their duty; and as to the committee being (a majority of them at least) favourable to the politics of the minister, that appeared to him to be an objection of but little weight; for let the committee be chosen whatever way it might, it was natural that, as a part, it must have the general complexion of the whole. He made use of the list that was given to him before the ballot upon the committee, but he made use of his discretion also upon that list. He saw no impropriety in that list being given to him. The only doubt he had on the motion now before the House resolved itself into a question of time. If he was sure that the matter to be investigated by such a committee as was at present asked for, would not branch out into a length that would defeat the object that was now in view, and in which dispatch was so essential, he should be ready to agree to the motion. But he feared the length of time which the investigation would rerequire, would be injurious, perhaps fatal, to the object which the House had in view. The question of the solidity of the bank would lie in a very narrow compass, and it could not be supposed that much time would be required to make a report. But with regard to the other question, namely, the causes of the present pressure, the matter was very different; the investigation must necessarily be of an intricate nature, and must take up much time as well as labour. It was a desirable thing to restore confidence to the people in our public affairs; and in order to do so, it would necessary to go into the whole syster of our finance. In the management autodistribution of that finance there had been great expenditure; much of it he believed was unavoidable; but he

NOES

So it passed in the negative.

Mr. Hobart then reported, that the following gentlemen were chosen to be members of the committee of Secrecy; viz. W. Hussey, Charles Grey, W. Plumer, T. Powys, T. Grenville, W. Wilberforce, J. Blackburn, T. B. Bramston, C. Bragge, sir J. Mitford, W. W. Bird, J. Fane, I. H. Browne, sir John Scott, and Alderman Anderson. Mr. Sheridan then moved, That the right hon. Charles James Fox be added to the said committee. Upon this the House divided: Yeas, 53; Noes, 140.

Debate in the Lords on appointing a Committee to examine the Outstanding Demands on the Bank.] Feb. 28. The order of the day being read for taking his Majesty's Message into consideration,

As

Lord Grenville said, he had but little to trouble their lordships with by way of preface to the motions which he would have the honour to submit to them. to the first, which was merely an address of thanks to his majesty for his gracious communication, and assuring him, that their lordships would take it into their serious and immediate consideration, there would be, he believed, but one opinion. On the next point, it was almost unnecessary to state, that a full investigation ought to take place on the important business to which the message alluded. It was with much satisfaction he stated his opinion to be, that the result of such an investigation would satisfacto. rily prove, that the Bank, upon a due comparison between the amount of its outstanding debts and engagements, and the assets actually in their possession, would be found to be in a most flourishing situation. It was his intention to move, that the committee should be a secret one. He then moved an Address similar to that moved this day in the House of Commons by Mr. Pitt.

The Duke of Grafton did not rise to oppose the Address. He could have wished, however, that the noble secretary of state had said something to show that

ministers had been driven to it by im-
perious necessity, and considered it as
an act of their own, not as a measure of
state springing out of the legal exercise
of the prerogative of the crown: that
there was no choice before they assented
to the miserable expedient, and went the
extreme length of a measure founded in
an assumption of power unknown to the
laws and constitution of the country, and
that they were aware it would be neces-it.
sary to follow the measure up with a bill
of indemnity. Till an act of indemnity
was obtained, it was competent to every
holder of a bank note, who when he pre-
sented it for payment, was refused money
at the bank, to bring an action against the
Bank Directors,

Lord Grenville said, that ministers had adopted the measure on the ground of state necessity, but it was clear the bank were not bound in law to act upon that order; he thought, however, that they had done wisely, and usefully for the public, in having immediately taken the step, which their lordships had seen, and the spirited and patriotic resolutions of the bankers and merchants who had held meetings on the subject, proved the sense they entertained of the salutariness of the measure. With regard to a bill of indemnity, it would be for their lordships after they had gone through the whole of the subject, to decide whether it was necessary or not.

The Duke of Bedford objected to the committee being a secret one. He did not think their lordships ought to determine a question of such immense importance, on the report of nine lords, be they who they might. Of the real exigency which induced ministers to issue the Order of Council, he should not speak, because he was not possessed of information to enable him to form a proper judgment of The noble secretary of state had, however, mentioned the public mind being agitated and alarmed by unfounded and exaggerated reports of an invasion. Who, he would ask, were the first propagators of those reports? Ministers themselves. They had given every degree of currency to the reports of invasion, and now they came and prefaced the necessity of the present unexampled measure, by alleging that the minds of the people were agitated and alarmed by unfounded and exaggerated reports of an invasion! He thought the words in the motion, after the word "House," ought to be left out; and moved accordingly.

Lord Grenville said, he would oppose the amendment, as it tended to take away an essential part of the original motion, and render the others of little use.

The Duke of Norfolk objected to a secret committee. If the bank was equal to all demands, it was for their honour that there should be no concealment. Any thing like secrecy would make a serious impression without doors.

The Earl of Guilford had no objection to the address. With regard to the seThe Duke of Grafton was decidedly cond motion, many things might come against the secrecy of the committee, and out before the committee, that ought to also against any report by the committee, be kept secret, but there were parts of the on the necessity of confirming and contiinquiry which by no means required se-nuing the measure adopted in the minute crecy; on the contrary they ought to be of council.

made as public as possible. If the bank The Marquis of Lansdown said, he had was in such a flourishing state as was re-long foreseen and foretold the present presented, it ought to be laid before the public, for the purpose of removing all ground of suspicion.

exigency. Noble lords would do him the justice to recollect, that not one session had passed over since 1793, in which he The Address being agreed to nem. dis. had not, to use a vulgar but a strong exlord Grenville next moved, "That a pression, bored their lordships with his Secret Committee, consisting of nine prophetic admonitions. His mind had been lords only, to be ballotted for, be ap-early taught a most sacred reverence for pointed to examine and state the total that most delicate and it let nit: thing, amount of Outstanding Demands on the called public cred. A pomphlet, 4. il Bank of England, and likewise of the but a most able one, ha eenit into Funds for discharging the same, and to his hands and recomen to his study: report the result thereof to the House, it was the production of great and distogether with their opinion on the ne- tinguished member of Pa ment, Harley, cessity of providing for the confirmation earl of Oxford. That noble author iland continuance of measures taken in lustrated the nature of prolie cre it by pursuance of the minutes of council, on saying, that it was to the people 2 Great the 26th instant."

for the management of this credit. To ascribe the shock that had been given to it to the idle stories of unfounded and exIt aggerated alarms, was ridiculous. proceeded from deep, progressive, accumulated causes. It was material to endeavour to ascertain the causes that had brought us to this dilemma. One cause was manifest-the inordinate increase of expense, of places and establishments in every corner of the empire. This had been growing to a height beyond every thing that the mind could conceive; it was incredible and scandalous; the increase of fees, of salaries, of places and pensions, of new boards of commission,

Britain what the soul of man was to his the administration of the country was, in body. It was pure soul: it was immate-reality, nothing more than a committee rial in itself, and yet it was that which gave to substance its functions. It was not the cause, but the effect; it flowed from the happy organization of all the parts of the material body. It was not to be created; it was not to be forced: its precise seat in the body politic could not be discovered; it at once pervaded over and proceeded out of the whole. It both gave and received its animation and its existence. It was not property, for no branch of the body could call it its own. It was not the king's credit; it was not the credit of parliament; it was public credit. It was that thing which sprung from the happy concoction of all the vital juices of the national frame, which pro-and new appointments of all kinds, had ceeded from the nice distribution of our not only served to open all the gates of parts, and their mutual co-operation; waste and profusion, but to beat down which gave to the national system a sym- and destroy all the checks of controul, and pathetic connexion, a unity of action, a all the means of correction.-Another correspondence and promptitude, which in cause of our present shock was, undoubtmatter of finance is known by the name of edly, the war: it was contemptible to punctuality. This public credit was the say, that sending money out of the kingsoul of England; it was that which had dom did not make us poorer: it was concarried the nation to a height infinitely temptible to tell us, that, because it did beyond its numerical power. It was our not go forth in specie, it was therefore credit that set all the calculations of poli-no diminution of our wealth; it was a tical arithmetic at defiance; it derided the cold diffidence of those who judged of our means by the geographical limits of the island, or the visible number of its people. Public credit did not even look to security as its basis, it always connected security with punctuality. Many noble lords with their 20,000l. a year would find it difficult to procure the loan of 1,000. on an emergency, though they had per-year, they had been kept in a state of defect security to offer, when a neighbouring tradesman, with a capital of, perhaps, only a few hundreds, would find the loan with facility. Why was this? It was the known punctuality of the one placed against the known want of punctuality in the other: it was because the lender knew that the merchant was tenacious of a credit about which the nobleman was indifferent. This was the character of England. This it was that had distinguished us from all the othe nations of the earth, and particularly om France: there, every thing had deaded on the king's credit; here, all dep Jance was on the nation: there a disor Dized spirit of expense sheltered itse under the credit of the grand monarque; Lere, every thing contributed to, as every thing flowed again from, the fountain of public credit; and

great fatal source of decrease, it diminished the reproductive power of the country, and it was found in the annual deficiencies of our revenue, which again became another cause of the present dilemma; for the minister had, year after year, to practise new expedients for the concealment or the supply of this deficiency; and thus it was that, year after

lusion, which, more than any thing else, was mortal to the delicate frame of public credit. Good God! what a scene was opened to the eyes of Englishmen. He did not dare to approach the measure of Sunday last; he had not yet ceased to shudder at it; he would not dare to say one word as to its prudence; he only would admonish their lordships, that upon the conduct of the legislature, in this momentous crisis, depended the fate of England. He had the utmost confidence in the Bank of England; their probity and their ability were undoubted; it was totally indifferent to him whether there was a secret committee or not; he was confident that they could safely come to the bar of that House and prove, in the face of the world, that they were equal to all their own engagements;

that they dreaded nothing but the in morning, many horrible effects had preterference of the state, and this interfer-sented themselves to his mind. The danence it would be well for their lordships ger that they had to apprehend from forto guard against. This was the rock upon gery, was none of the least of the evils; which alone we could split. To the report we should have the re-action of the blow of a committee of nine noble lords, who we had struck at France; we had made should confine themselves to the single our base instruments adepts in the science, object of examining the ability of this and it was not to be expected that they company, he had no objection; in his would suffer the opportunity to pass mind, too, it ought to be a secret com- unimproved. Another evil was, that of mittec, not because there ought not to be jobbing in bills and money. Adventurers the utmost publicity in every thing that of all descriptions would start up, the regarded the pecuniary state and circum- precious metals would disappear, and stances of the nation, but because the every article would bear two prices, one Bank was a private company, and parlia for money, and one for paper. Another, ment had no right to pry into their affairs. and a monstrous evil would be, that it Taking it for granted, however, that it would open the door to unlimited expenwas at their own express desire, he had diture, and we should have not merely a no objection to the appointment of a com- continuance of the war, but all the frantic mittee of nine lords, who should strictly and delusive expeditions which were now confine themselves to the examination of projected would be fatally put into executheir funds and their engagements-no tion. He warned ministers against all this. farther. All the latter part of the mo- He warned them against the folly of attion he must object to. The only way in tempting the Spanish South-American which the measure could be countenanced, possessions. In three or four years they was as a measure of persuasion: he was would fall away from Spain themselves; sorry to have seen in the order of council a greater good could not be done to Spain so improper a term as the word "require;" than to relieve them from the curse of it was a word unknown to the law, and these settlements, and make them an inwhich ought not to have been used; it dustrious people like their neighbours. was an importation from France. Requi- A greater evil could not happen to Engsition carried with it the idea of terror, land than to add them to our already which could only be carried on by force. over-grown possessions. It ought to have been a recommendation. The first error must be repaired; if an attempt shall be made to use force, we are gone as a people. "Mark my prophecy, my lords," exclaimed the noble marquis, and do not disdain the counsel, while yet in time. If you attempt to make bank notes a legal tender, their credit will perish. They may go on for a time; but the consequence is certain. No art, no skill, no power, can prevent their falling to a discount. We do not speak upon conjecture; the thing is matter of experience. A fever is as much a fever in London as in Paris or Amsterdam; and the consequences of a stoppage of payment must be the same in whatever country it shall happen. The fall will be slow, perhaps, and gradual for a time; but it will be certain. A few months may bring to the recollection of your lordships with contrition, the prophecy that I have now made to you." In meditating on the consequences of the measure that

3

The Lord Chancellor said, that it had never entered into the contemplation of ministers to use any forcible means. It was impossible to say what plan the wisdom of the legislature might devise, upon the report of the committee; but he could take upon himself to say, that it never yet had been conceived that it would be wise or prudent to make bank notes a legal tender.

Lord Grenville confirmed the declaration that ministers had it not in contemplation to coerce the acceptance of bank

notes.

The question being put, Whether the words proposed to be left out shall stand part of the question? the House divided: Contents, 78; Not-Contents, 12. original motion was then agreed to.

The

March 2. A committee was appointed consisting of lords Chatham, Winchelsea, Graham, Hardwicke, Liverpool, Sydney, Grenville, Ossory, and De Dunstanville.