The remainder of the increase-$6.4 million-is for mandatory in

creases.

I think, Mr. Chairman, with that general summary, I will proceed to answer your questions.

INSPECTOR GENERAL PROGRAM INCREASE

Senator ABDNOR. Very good, Mr. Zuck.

You led right into my first question. We often hear about more bodies being added. The obvious question is, "Why?" You do propose to add 52 more inspectors general to audit what? That is going to increase audits 10 percent. Is that the idea?

Mr. Zuck. It would increase the total staff to a level of 516.

Senator ABDNOR. Yes; I believe you said you would increase audits by 10 percent over fiscal year 1982. Did I pull that out of your statement?

Mr. MCBRIDE. Mr. Chairman, it would increase total staff by 10 percent and the total number of audits by 40 percent. I think more importantly, in addition to increasing the number of audits, it enables us to apply audit oversight to some major programs such as unemployment insurance and workers' compensation where, historically, there has not been a high level of audit attention.

In our view, there is a lot of money that can be saved by increased audit coverage in those areas.

Senator ABDNOR. That would mostly be where it would be concentrated?

Mr. MCBRIDE. That and CETA. CETA has been our stock in trade, if you will, for the audit business in the Department of Labor and has so preoccupied our audit staff that they have given insufficient attention in the past to these other multimillion dollar program areas.

CONTRACT AUDIT EFFORT

Senator ABDNOR. How much is budgeted for the contractual audit work in fiscal 1983 as compared to fiscal 1982?

Mr. MCBRIDE. It will be slightly over $17 million, which represents a very substantial increase. A large part of that is due to the need to provide greater audit coverage of the unemployment insurance program.

You know that UI program benefits approach $17 billion. There has been very little Federal audit effort there. There are error rates, overpayment rates, which we are very concerned about. We think we can have a significant impact in reducing fraud and waste in that program.

Basically, these audit contracts are both for governmental audit groups who would do the audit work and for private certified public accounting firms who do the work on contract for us.

Senator ABDNOR. They will be intensified?

Mr. MCBRIDE. That's correct.

Senator ABDNOR. The audit policy.

WOMEN'S BUREAU TRAINING EFFORTS

In your training programs, what does the Women's Bureau intend to do to encourage local sponsors of Federal employment training programs to more adequately address the employment of and training needs of women?

Do you have any thoughts on that?

Dr. ALEXANDER. We are already working very closely with local government officials, providing technical assistance to them to assist women in moving into some of the job training opportunities that are available to them.

Senator ABDNOR. With your existing resources, has the Women's Bureau been able to provide technical assistance to CETA prime sponsors to overcome the sex stereotyping in job placement?

Dr. ALEXANDER. To this point, we have been.

Senator ABDNOR. To what extent does the Women's Bureau support employment and training programs for women in skilled, nontraditional jobs?

Dr. ALEXANDER. During fiscal year 1982, we have had an initiative for increasing the number of women in apprenticeship positions. This initiative is operating in all 10 of our Federal regions. We are holding regional training workshops to provide information, materials, and assistance to employers, union officials, and others; and, we have already seen an increase in women moving into apprenticeship jobs.

DEMONSTRATION PROJECTS

Senator ABDNOR. Ms. Alexander, how does the Women's Bureau intend to utilize the $1 million of the CETA funds earmarked for demonstration, employment, and training projects?

Dr. ALEXANDER. We will be working with our regional offices in establishing model projects to enable women to enhance employment opportunities. Also, we will work closely on alleviating some of the sex stereotyping that women have encountered in the past.

We will be sponsoring conferences on issues of concern to working women, such as child care and women in management. By addressing the support services needed for women to work, we will help women move into well-paying employment.

Senator ABDNOR. How much are you earmarking in your 1983 budget for that?

Dr. ALEXANDER. Funds have not been earmarked in the 1983 budget at this point, but I am certain the Secretary will be allocating some funds to the Women's Bureau for program initiatives.

IMPACT OF PROGRAM DECREASE

Senator ABDNOR. What will the impact of the proposed reduction in Women's Bureau staff from the 79 level down to 70 be? Will that have a great impact?

Dr. ALEXANDER. We will have to curtail some of our activities. For example, we will not be able to continue with the number of publications that we have prepared in the past and disseminated throughout

the country. We will not be able to provide the same level of technical as- sistance as we have in former years. And we will have to place less emphasis on some of the projects, especially those relating to the displaced homemakers and some of those we have had for helping young women make the transition from school to work.

Senator ABDNOR. I was recalling last year from the Senate report language. We earmarked 79 positions for the Women's Bureau. Now, I guess the budget request at that time was only for 79. Have you been able to fill all those 79 positions?

Dr. ALEXANDER. We have been in a RIF posture with the Department of Labor, so we have just now reached the point where we can begin to fill those positions.

VETERANS EMPLOYMENT SERVICE

Senator ABDNOR. Will the newly appointed Assistant Secretary for Veterans Employment have authority to coordinate all veteran issues involving the Labor Department and help resolve problems?

Mr. Zuck. The Assistant Secretary for Veterans Activities is the principal advisor to the Secretary in the Department on veterans activity and will coordinate all the Department of Labor veterans activity. Senator ABDNOR. He will?

Mr. Zuck. Yes.

Senator ABDNOR. Do you think the veterans reemployment rights program and disabled veterans outreach program should be transferred to this office?

Mr. Zuck. The question of transferring the Office of Veterans Reemployment Rights was raised with the Secretary by the chairman, Mr. Schmitt. The Secretary indicated that, at the present time, that program would not be transferred, but it was his ultimate objective to transfer the program.

With respect to the disabled veterans outreach program, that will be under the direction of the Assistant Secretary for Veterans Employment. Senator ABDNOR. It will?

Mr. Zuck. Yes.

Senator ABDNOR. What has been the impact of cutbacks in the State employment service offices on referral and placement of veterans in jobs?

Mr. Zuck. I do not have the precise answer to that in numbers. We can provide them for the record.

Senator ABDNOR. Would you please?

Mr. Zuck. We will do that.

[The information follows:]

IMPACT OF STATE EMPLOYMENT SERVICE REDUCTIONS

Accomplishments for the first quarter of fiscal year 1982 compared to the same 1981 period show a decline of 18.7 percent in veterans referred to jobs and a decline of 19.3 percent in veterans placed in jobs. The reduction in referral and placement activity for all applicants is about the same as for veterans.

UNEMPLOYMENT RATE FOR VETERANS

Senator ABDNOR. Good. I think that would be fine.

Is it true that the overall veterans unemployment is virtually about the same as the national unemployment rate? Is that a correct statement?

Mr. Zuck. That is essentially correct, but not quite. The Bureau of Labor Statistics, in their monthly report on employment and unemployment, reports an overall unemployment rate for veterans 25 years of age and older. That rate in March was 9.1 percent. The March unemployment rate for the total population was 9 percent.

However, if one looks at the most difficult area of veterans unemployment in the age category of 25 to 39, the veterans unemployment rate in March was 9.9 percent, whereas the rate for nonveterans in that same age category was 8.7 percent, considerably lower.

If one looks at the specific category of 25- to 29-year-olds, the veterans unemployment rate was 17 percent, whereas the nonveteran unemployment rate of males in that age category was 10.5 percent.

So in those age groups, particularly 25 to 29, the unemployment rate for veterans is substantially higher than it is for nonveterans.

Senator ABDNOR. It sounds like there is still quite a need, then, for help with locating jobs for our veterans. Is there any special reason for that big discrepancy?

Mr. Zuck. I can't explain it. This age category represents veterans of the Vietnam era who continue to have problems in obtaining employment.

Senator ABDNOR. Do most of those young veterans come out trained particularly well in any one area?

Mr. Zuck. Obviously some do and some do not have skills that are readily available for transferance to the civilian economy.

Senator ABDNOR. Those that do, can they readily find jobs usually? Mr. Zuck. I am not sure readily is the right word. Those that are highly qualified certainly find it much easier in obtaining jobs than those who are not.

IMPACT OF REDUCTIONS FOR PRESIDENT'S COMMITTEE ON EMPLOYMENT OF THE

HANDICAPPED

Senator ABDNOR. Under the continuing resolution, Federal staff for the President's Committee on Employment of the Handicapped has been cut from 50 down to 39 positions. What has been the impact of this reduction in the ability of the President's committee to perform its work?

Mr. Zuck. The President's committee is not part of the Department of Labor, but is included in our budget. Let me ask Mr. Bernard Posner who is the executive director of the committee to speak to that if I could.

Senator ABDNOR. Just state your name again, if you will.

Mr. POSNER. I am Bernard Posner, Executive Director of the President's Committee on Employment of the Handicapped.

We previously had authorization for 50 positions. We have never really achieved that employment level. We have never had 50 people on board.

When our positions were cut back to the present level, it became a more realistic reflection of those people we actually do have.

Senator ABDNOR. In other words, then, it has worked quite efficiently?

Mr. POSNER. We are comfortable.

Senator ABDNOR. Very fine, 50 is a nice number, but if you can do it with 39, all the better.

Mr. POSNER. The 39 people is our total of whom about 20 are professional people. The rest are support people. We are able to conduct an entire national program with 20 people because we make extensive use of the volunteer members of the President's committee.

We work in tandem with our nonpaid volunteers of whom there are about 200 very active.

Senator ABDNOR. Well, fine.

What type of projects are being eliminated that your standing committees used to engage in? On page 46 of the budget justification, it says projects cut in half were 28 in fiscal 1981 and 14 in fiscal 1982. What kind of projects are you eliminating?

Mr. POSNER. Well, we are eliminating projects that no longer have real crucial relevance to the handicapped people in America today. At one time, we were quite active in trying to cope with the plight of disabled people who were disadvantaged.

This became too much for a President's committee, for any group like ours, so we have had to back away from it.

Also, we have cut back on our efforts in behalf of eliminating architectural barriers in the United States because we now feel there is enough momentum already to carry that forward without our leadership.

Also, we have reduced some of our promotional efforts in the area of people covered by affirmative action, because we now feel there is a great need to reach employees who are not covered by affirmative action who make up half the employees in this country.

In a couple of words, we are able to redirect our priorities readily to meet changing times.

Senator ABDNOR. Have you had much criticism from the outside on that?

Mr. POSNER. Every time we eliminate anything, we get criticism by the basketful, but we have to go ahead with what we think is right, at least what our membership feels is right.

EMPLOYMENT RATE OF HANDICAPPED PERSONS

Senator ABDNOR. Has the employment of the handicapped suffered disproportionately during the current recession?

Mr. POSNER. That is a hard one to answer. I would say that handicapped people without training have been particularly hard hit-people without specific training for specific skills.