46 be tried by instead of judges and juries;" promised, but not performed; he if they were to take the constitution" meant the extinction of tithes. (Hear, from England, the same as they were" hear). It was in the confidence that about doing from Ireland; then if it these measures would be brought was reduced to a question whether the" forward that he now supported his Government should be destroyed or the " Majesty's Government. (Hear, hear). people enslaved, he should do all in" He did not mean to disguise his feelhis power to prevent the latter. ings on the subject, but he must say, After this, I presented my petitions, "that never did the country, at any one by one, the clerk reading the titles" moment, place such confidence in men of them and the prayers, and then put- as they did in the present Ministers; ting them by to be carried afterwards" and if they did not exercise that conbefore the inspecting committee. Other "fidence for the good of the country, members then came on with their peti-" he was sure it would be quite impostions; but first, Mr. STRICKLAND, one "sible for them to carry the present of the members for the West Riding of "measure. He hoped and trusted MiYorkshire, rose, and made observations nisters would immediately bring forof which the following is the report" ward those measures to which he had given in the Morning Chronicle; and," adverted, redeeming every pledge they indeed, he could not very well remain" had made, and thereby preventing the silent after so large a part of his consti- " expectations of the public from being tuents had charged me with the pre- disappointed." correct. 66. 66 senting of their petitions. I do not pre- "Mr. FIELDEN said, that he had been tend to be answerable for the very words," requested to support the petition from but the report is, I believe, substantially" Huddersfield and others from the "North, presented by his hon. Col"Mr. STRICKLAND felt called upon league; and in doing so with perfect "to say a few words, in consequence of cordiality, he took the opportunity of "two of the petitions which the hon." observing, that the hon. Member for "Member had presented—namely, those" the West Riding of Yorkshire had "from Huddersfield and Keightley. He told us, that he gave his support to "knew many of those petitioners, who" the Ministers in the measure relative were men of the utmost respectability, "to Ireland, because he considered it "and he felt convinced that they had to be necessary, and because it was "no wish whatever to express their " accompanied by a promise of remedial "opinions too strongly; but the senti- measures, amongst others, the total "ments of freedom were strongly inhe-" extinction of tithes, which he thought "rent in them. He could, however," indispensable for securing the peace "not go to the full extent of support- "of Ireland; a promise, which he, (Mr. ing all parts of the prayers of these" F.) had not heard made to the House: petitions, because he deviated from "commutation had, indeed, been spoken "them upon this point, whether or not" of; but that was a very different thing "it had been proved by his Majesty's "from total extinction. Mr. F. said, that "Government that there was a case of " no case of necessity for the Irish Bill "necessity for the course they had" had been made out to satisfy him, and "adopted, and he thought that a tem- no proof produced, that the measure, porary departure from the constitution" terrible as it was, would be effective "ought to be allowed for the protection"in the producing of peace and content "of life and property. (Hear, hear)." in Ireland; and he, therefore, thought "He should not support Government in" it his duty to support all the petitions, "the present measures, if he was not praying the House not to adopt this "fully convinced they would carry on measure; and he most fervently hoped every desirable reform in the institu-" that the House would not disregard "tions of the country, and would, with-" those prayers." out delay, effect that which had been 66 66 66 66 Colonel WILLIAMS, member for Ash 66 66 66 ton-under-Lyne, upon presenting pe- not being in time to present a petition titions from Moseley and Stayley- from that public-spirited town, and Bridge, made these observations, thus having committed the petition to the reported in the Morning Chronicle :- care of Mr. Gilton, who was in town, "Colonel WILLIAMS presented two simi- these two gentlemen did full justice to "lar petitions from the hundred of that petition, and more than justice they Moseley and from Stayley-Bridge, could not do in endeavouring to give "both in the parish of Ashton-under-weight and consideration to the prayers Lyne. The petitioners regretted the of the petitioners, who, without any one "introduction of the Coercive Bill, as single exception, are as much entitled to being founded neither in necessity, be heard and attended to, as any perjustice, nor humanity, but as subver-sons in this whole kingdom. "sive of every fundamental principle Now, as to other matters, which are "of free government. In his (Colonel before the House and coming before it, "Williams's) opinion, the power given the division, on Monday night, on the "in this bill ought to be intrusted to Irish Church Reform Bill, was curious! no ministry. He did not mean to say Only 48 for further delay out of nearly "that he thought his Majesty's present 500! I voted against Old Bess's "Government would wish to abuse this Church, and so I would, if the proposipower, but other Governments might|tion had been to take only one hen's egg succeed them who would be willing from her parsons; but, I did not, by "to take advantage of this bill as a pre- that vote, say that the measure satisfied "cedent for the oppression of the peoplme. On the contrary, like "Catholic "of England. It was principally on emancipation," it will only make the "this ground that he objected to the matter worse: it recognises the right of 46 severe measure now before the "House." 66 66 66 This is the Chronicle's report, which, as far as it goes, is substantially correct; but it does not go far enough to do the Colonel justice, for, to the above, he added this: With regard to the observation of the hon. Member for "Oldham, relative to the designs of his Majesty's Ministers, if not to believe "that they had a design to introduce "martial-law into England instead of "trial by jury, a man must be a fool, he, for his part, was a fool." Parliament to put down the church altogether, while it makes only a small beginning in the work. When to establish oppression is your object, proceed by slow degrees; but, if you mean to lighten the burden, do it all at once; take the whole off; for, the last pound weight of ten will seem heavier than the whole ten seemed. This measure does not take off one pound of the ten; and it will do nothing but add to the discontents. The great question relative to the stamp duties and auction duties will be Sir JOHN MAXWELL, in presenting a brought forward by me as soon as the petition from a body of persons in Ren-Irish Court-martial Bill shall be disfrewshire against the bill, for the aboli-posed of; and, I promise my constition of tithes and the Protestant hierar- tuents, and the people in general, that chy in Ireland, and for the introduction I will bring it forward in a manner of poor-laws into Ireland, said that he agreed with the petitioners with regard to poor-laws for Ireland; but that he differed from them with regard to the rest of their prayer. which shall either produce new acts of Parliament which shall cause the duties to be collected fairly in future, or which, at least, shall leave no doubt in the mind of any man living with regard Mr. GILLON, member for the borough to the manner in which the industrious of Lanark, did ample justice to excel- classes have been treated ever since the lent petitions from that borough, as present laws have been in existence. well as to several other petitions which To those who have written to me upon he presented from his own county; and, the subject, I have to say, first, that I Mr. WALLACE, Member for Geenock, I am very much obliged to them for the : information which they have given me petition was drawn up in strong terms, their letters may be said to contain the and expressed the opinion of the petieries of the aged, the widows, and the tioners that the right hon. Secretary for fatherless. They may be assured of one Ireland was unfit for his office, and of two things; namely, that either called upon the House to address his these laws must be changed, or we must Majesty for his removal. The hon. be governed under the bill which is now Member said, though he voted for going .under discussion. I trust that the into committee on the bill, he was former will be the case; and I promise averse from the court-martial and firemy readers that my propositions upon the subject shall be so clearly just; and, at the same time, so effectual, while they shall be moderate and reasonable, that it will be impossible for the Parliament to refuse to adopt them, without openly declaring that those who live by the sweat of their brow shall continue to toil for those who do nothing. and-smoke clauses. The hon. Member also deprecated the manner in which this bill was being opposed in the south of Ireland, that was by a run upon the banks, and which could only be detrimental to the oppositionists themselves. Mr. C. FITZSIMON Supported the prayer of the petitions. Mr. FINN said the people in Ireland were only imitating the English people I shall now proceed to notice those when they wished to carry the Reform which I deem very interesting matters, Bill. It was then said-" To stop the and which have occurred within the Duke, go for gold." These occurrences, last few days in the House of Com-he said, should convince his Majesty's mons. We are in a crisis; there must Ministers of the mischievous character be a change: the struggle on the part of this bill. He implored them to pause of the King's servants is to prevent this in time. change if they succeed, which they may, if they please, for they have numbers on their side, the state of the country will be infinitely worse than it was before this reform took place, because, Mr. F. O'CONNOR said he was of opito suffering will be added disappoint- nion that this run for gold was fraught ment; disappointment will be followed with the most deplorable consequences. by despair, and of the result of despair Mr. COBBET T regretted that he should no man can foresee the consequences. find it necessary to differ from all the But as to numbers, the struggle when Mr. CHAPMAN also deprecated the run upon the banks in Ireland, as did also Mr. W. Fitzsimon, and another member, whose name we could not learn. we come to matters of taxation, will hon. Gentlemen around him, upon this not be like that which is now going on most important subject. So far was he with regard to the Court-martial Bill for from conjuring the people not to go for Ireland. There are many men, who are so positively pledged upon the sub-gold, that he besought them by all means to do so. (Great sensation, and ject of certain taxes, that it is impossible that the numbers of the Ministers cries of No, no). Fortunately (said the can continue what they are upon this hon. Member), there are not persons Irish bill. enough here to drown my voice, or, at all events, I will endeavour to make myself heard. A very wise man had said, that paper-money was strength in the beginning, but weakness in the end. Gentlemen might think what they pleased about the matter, but they might be assured that they were destined to endure military tyranny both in England and Ireland, unless, indeed, it were for the weakness of the Government oc Wednesday, 13. March.-At the noon sitting, some sharp talk arose upon the presenting of a petition from Ireland, the presenter of which took occasion to express his sorrow and alarm that the people of Ireland were running upon the banks for gold. The debate was somewhat as follows. Mr. G. EVANS presented a petition from Swords against the bill. The moment of their lives exposed to be The SPEAKER here rose, but from the confusion that was occasioned in the House, we could not catch what he said. casioned by this very thing. Yes, he was a great curse and scourge in itself, repeated it, paper-money was weakness but it would at last cure the evil it in the end. It was well known that the created. His advice therefore to the present Ministers would not now have people of Ireland, was by all means run been in their places-that the Reform for gold. Honourable Members have Bill would not have passed, and that told us that the people of Ireland would there would therefore have been a vio- only add to their sufferings by this lent and a dreadful convulsion in the course of proceeding. This is what the country, had it not been for the paper-people are always told when they use money. The people ran upon the bank means of resistance. Worse off! How for gold, and forty-eight hours would can they be worse off than be every not have passed over, without that bank stopping payment, had not Lord Grey been re-seated in his place. The people of England, at any rate, then, had got something by running for gold: he again entreated the people of Ireland to do as the people of England had done. (Great sensation, and cries of No, no). It was said, it would increase their sufferings; but could they be worse off than they now were ? At all events, he said, anything rather than submit to military despotism. He would rather see England in confusion from one end to the other, than such an unconstitutional bill as that which was at present before the House should be passed. He would rather, even, that the whole country should go to the bottom of the sea; if he held the island by a string he would let it go under the water and go along with it himself, rather than see Englishmen live in submission to a tyranny like this. A man must be a born idiot not to see that this measure was merely a prelude to the introduction of the same thing into England: and he ventured to predict, that if this measure passed, and were carried into effect in Ireland, we should soon have a sort of military police established from one end of England to the other. He believed that the King's servants had it now under consideration to pass a law to establish in this country a police force like that in Ireland; a sort of gendarmerie like that in France, frome one end of England to another. If the noble Lord were sitting upon the treasury bench, he believed he would not deny the fact. Against such a measure the people had no protection but the Mr. COBBETT regretted that he should have transgressed any rule of the House, but had supposed he was perfectly in order. In conclusion, he remarked, that Ministers had just now appeared to be greatly afraid of political associations; but he would like to ask them what they thought of the new association for circumventing the King's Government in the creation of paper-money. He believed they called themselves the Currency Club. Mr. LAMB deprecated Mr. Cobbett's call upon the people to run for gold, and was sure the hon. Member could not point out any good it would do to the people; on the contrary, it would increase their sufferings. He denied that there was any intention of bringing any thing like a gendarmerie into England. Some more petitions were presented against the bill, TODMORDEN PETITION. weakness of the Government, expe- Lord MOLYNEUX, one of the Members This for the southern division of Lancashire, rienced from the paper-money. 66 presented a petition from Todmorden" the sentiments of the neighbourhood and its neighbourhood, against the" it came from on that account, but he Court-martial Bill for Ireland. He" required that the noble Lord who said that he could not support it. Upon "had read the letter should deal fairly the motion that the petition du lie upon by him and by the House. Whose sigthe table, Lord MORPETH, one of the "nature had the letter to it, and what Members for the West Riding of York-" did it contain? Coming as he (Mr. F.) shire, in which Todmorden is partly "did from where the petitioners reside, situated, rose, and took out a letter," and knowing their respectability and which he read, decrying the petition "sentiments, he naturally felt indignant and the petitioners, saying that they at the conduct of the writer, and could were few in number compared with" not suffer such a gross attempt to the population of the townships from "deceive the House, without exposing which the petition came, and that it" the party doing it to the contempt had been hawked about, and was not" he or they may deserve. Would the signed but by a very small portion of the noble Lord show him the letter? people of those townships. (The noble Lord consented to do so, “Mr. FIELDEN said the petition pre- "and said it was signed Samuel Sut"sented by the noble Lord, the Mem-" cliffe). Was there any other signature, "ber for Lancashire, came from the" or had the noble Lord any other let"district where he resided, and he was "ter on this petition? (Lord Mo&PETH " very much surprised at the contents" said he had none beside the envelope "of the letter read by the noble Lord," to the one he held in his hand). Mr. "the Member for Yorkshire; he un-" Fielden then concluded by saying that "derstood the noble Lord to read that" as neither of the noble Lords had sup"the petition was not signed by one" ported the prayer of the petition, he "respectable person in the district (No," Mr. Fielden) felt it his duty to do so, no, the noble Lord said, not one tithe);" and to state that he entirely cou"well, not one tithe then, not one incurred in the sentiments expressed by "ten. He (Mr. Fielden) would venture" the petitioners." 66 66 an opinion that the petition had the [Mr. SUTCLIFFE is a young attorney "signatures of nine-tenths of the re- at Todmorden; his letter states, that the "spectable inhabitants of Todmorden. townships of Stansfield, Langfridd, and 66 and the immediate neighbourhood, Todmorden, and Welsden, contain a "affixed to it; if it had not so, why population of 18,000; that the petition "have not those who style themselves was got up by the Political Union; respectable got up a counter-petition, that it had only about 1,800 signatures and sent it to the House, that we to it; that there were but few respec"might know who they are? The table persons in the Union; that the "petition was very respectably signed; respectable persons in the townships "it conveyed to the House the opinion thought the measure for coercing Ire "of the inhabitants of the township it land a strong one; but they approved came from; he (Mr. Fielden) was of it, because they thought it necessary; "well acquainted with their sentiments that signatures had been got to it from "on this obnoxious Irish coercive mea- many persons who never saw the "sure, and that they entirely disap-petition, nor knew what it con"proved of it. The petition might have tained, or what it petitioned for; that "been got up in haste, knowing the persons had been hired to go round to "speed with which measures like this were usually carried through the House; "the noble Lord who presented it had "had the petition in his care for seve"ral days; if more time had been al"lowed, it might have received more "signatures; but it did not speak less get it signed, after it had been for some days in different places without being signed, as was expected; that a party who met to read the True Sun had been mainly instrumental in promoting the petition; that Messrs. Fielden and Mr. George Ashworth were members of |