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us ; and
we can do nothing in any reasonable and especially the sensible people of space of time. In the end, indeed, I Scotland, should be made well ac. know that my efforts alone would shake quainted with all my doings and all my to its very foundation everything that is sayings; and I will give them the inunjust in this system. But we want teresting parts of my speeches as often the effect to come quickly, and to have as I can; always, however, stating, at that, we must have the people with length, or in substance, that which has that, too, by
of been reported in the way of answer to the regular, lawful, constitutional mode me; for it shall never be said of me, of PETITION. These resolutions of that I take advantage of my pen, while mine, which shall always be undeniably my brother menibers have not the same true, or, from the cause before men- advantage. I could here, for instance, tioned, founded on estimate, will fur- answer Mr. Methuen and Sir Charles nish the subject matter of petitions. My Burrell, whom the regulations of the first resolution (that on the stamps and House prevented me from answering ut uuclions duties) is not yet complete, the time, but I will not do it, they not however. As far as it goes, it is cor- having the same means of answering rect; but it does not go far enough. me in a similar case. When the subject has been regularly tleman who has written to me from brought before the House, uccording to Lanark very sincerely for his kind letter. the wish of Lord Althorp, then it will I never think of Scotland and find the be complete; and then, if there be a thought unaccompanied with feelings of town in England, or Scotland, which gratitude ; and if I wanted any motive does not petition for redress, may the to urge me to a zealous discharge of my people of that town be slaves to the end duty, my recollections as to Scotland of their lives.
would be a motive ten thousand times Wx. COBBETT. more than sufficient.
I thank the gen
TO THE PEOPLE OF LANARK,
IMPORTANT DEBATE. I have received a letter from a gen
On Wednesday night I went home tleman in this excellent town, requesting during a debate on the Liverpool Brime to insert in the Register the reports bery, leaving the committee of ways and of my speeches in Parliament. To do means to come on in my absence, having this, with justice to the House and jus previously told Lord ALTHORP, that I tice to myself too, would be next to im. did not intend to bring on my RE
SOLUTION possible. For a man to publish his own
on the STAMPS and blunders is against nature ;
AUCTION DUTIES until after the
may commit blunders as well as other
red-coat court of justice bill should be
people. On the other side, there is such a
disposed of. But, in my absence, difference between writing and speak- there was my colleague to watch the ing, that to give a written report of my ways and means affair ; and, there own speech, would be unfair towards arose the debate, of which the following, the other members of Parliament. I
a report;. and by which the public only want to be fairly treated by the will see, that OLDHAM has two-menireporters in general, as I hitherto bers faithful to their trust. have been, except once
or twice in the old Times. If the reports be not always quite accurate, as to the
SUGAR DUTIES. facts which I state, they do not,
Lord ALTHORP said, the first resolution at any rate, exhibit anything that is he should propose was the continuation awkward in my manner of stating them. for another year of the present sugar I am very desirous that all the people, duties. It was not necessary for liiin
to go into any argument upon the sub- Parliament which would effect great ject. The ground upon which he pro- alterations in the state of the West Inposed this resolution was, that these dia interests. It would therefore be duties were at present necessary to the premature and unjust to enter into dispublic service. The state of the revenue cussions affecting those interests at prewould not permit him to propose a re- Sugar had undoubtedly become duction, either with a view to the in- one of the necessaries of life to the laterests of the public or of the planters. bouring classes ; but was it the article He should be glad to propose à reduc- which the hon. Gentleman, as the advotion if he could do it to such an amount cate of those classes, would select as the is by increasing the consumption would first to relieve from the pressure of give relief to the West India interest. duty ? Reduction of duty or prohibition was Mr. GOULBURN thought this was not the only way of benefiting them. the time for the discussion which had
The resolution having been put by been originated by the hon. Member the Chairman,
for Middlesex. That hon. Member had Mr. Humɛ said, the question was, remarked, that the principal attendance whether the duty might not be reduced upon the present occasion, consisted of without diminution of the revenue ? He those who had formerly been members regretted the absence of the hon. Mem- of that House, and complained of the ber for Oldham (Mr. Cobbett) upon this absence of those younger members occasion. (A laugh). It must be that he from whose activity and zeal he had was not aware of the importance of the anticipated better things. He begged subject to be brought forward. 'There leave to tell the hon. Member that those were 316 new members in the House, to whom he alluded would be found and not half of them were present. not only on that but upon all other The noble Lord did not say a word questions affecting the interests of the about East India sugar. It was a great comniunity, at their posts, the watchful injustice to that portion of the empire guardians of the public interests, as that a duty of ten shillings more should they ever had been, although it had be imposed on East than on West India been the practice of the hon. Member in sugar. The duty should be equalized, former Parliaments to attack them as It could not injure the West India negligent and inattentive to their trust. planters. It would be important to the The hon. Gentleman might be assured public if even but a small reduction, a he would find them always in their halfpenny or a farthing a pound, was places, ready to perform their duty as made on this duty.
laithful stewards, whatever might be Mr. Wartuore thought that it was the character of the Administration. most important that justice should be (Hear, hear). It was essential that there done in this respect to the East Indies, should be some members of other Parparticularly at the present time, when liaments in the present reformed House they were about to revise the charter of to instruct the new members, although the East India Company, and, probably, upon the present occasion they were to throw open the trade to that part of not there to be instructed (a laugh) in the world. The duty was unjust, and the manner in which public business pressed unequally.
was conducted in former times. It was Lord ALTHORP said, the present was his duty now to call the attention of not the proper time for the discussion the House to the departure exhibited by of the topics introduced by the hon. the present proceeding from all former Member for Middlesex. The question custom. Since that House had voted of the East India charter, it was well money to the crown it had uniformly known, stood for discussion at no dis- been the practice to submit the estitant daie in that House ; and it was mates for the year first, and then vote also well known that his Majesty's Go- the supplies. (Hear, hear). It was vernment had propositions to submit to not mere matter of form, but of sub
stantial importance, that this practice found it difficult to act as they might should be adhered to. This was the wish. As another opportunity would first time that the House had been occur for the discussion of this subject, called upon to vote away the public he would for the present refrain from money before the estimates for different going further into the merits of the public services--the army, navy, and question. ordnance-were before them. (Hear). Lord ALTHORP explained. The duties He hoped thewholesome practice of their on sugar would expire on the 5. of predecessorswould not be departed from. April, and it was therefore absolutely He thought the noble lord opposite necessary he should no longer postpone (Lord Althorp) ought to have given the the resolution. He had already stated House some idea of the extent of re. J that it would be imprudent to state the mission of taxation to which he meant reduction proposed in taxation before to go. He knew that the present they saw what was to be the amount of financial state of the country did not the revenue, The naval estimates were warrant the expectation, for it would be already on the table. He was not disneither politic nor just, of any large posed to prefer the West India interest remission of taxes. But when the to the interests of other classes, and noble Lord went out of his way to al- should be disposed to give them as lude to particular interests (the West much consideration as possible, conIndia for instance) and intimated that sistently with the clains of others. the intentions of Government were Mr. Robinson thought the country fixed upon that subject, he thought it was not in a state to admit of any great hard that their interests should be de- remission of taxes; but he should heretermined upon without affording an after point out to Government the beopportunity of contrasting the degree nefits to be derived from a commutation of relief to be afforded to them with of taxes. Many taxes pressing upon the degree extended to others. Such a the labouring and industrious classes course would be hard as to any interest, might be shifted upon other shoulders. but it was peculiarly hard with re- The hon. Member for Middlesex had ference an interest which, if asked how they could expect the people any were entitled to courtesy and of the East Indies to consume British attention from its peculiar situa- manufactures, unless they took the tion, undoubtedly it was that interest. sugar of the East in return? He would There were few taxes the remission of ask the hon. Member how they could which would be productive of greater expect the West Indies to take British benefits than the tax upon sugar. Those manufactures, unless Great Britain took only who were acquainted with the their sugar ? habits of the poorer orders could know Mr. WARBURTON thought this a most how completely this article had become inconvenient discussion, when they had one of the necessaries of life with them. not the whole statement of the public The effect of its reduction or remission, income and expenditure before them. therefore, would be a considerable in. He wished to know whether the expericrease of consumption, and a great re- ments instituted respecting the system lief to the mercantile interest, which of bounties and drawbacks had come to was at present overburdened with the any result ? article. It would also give relief to Lord ALTHORP said that the existence another class of persons, who, although of considerable variation had been estanot usually ranked among the poorer (blished, but as yet no sufficient result classes, were, in fact, the poorest class to form the basis of a calculation. in his Majesty's dominions. He, of
An hon. Member deprecated the precourse, meant the West India interest. sent discussion. He was a colonist, and (Hear, hear). He well knew that Go- derived all his income from the West vernment were pressed by other, and, Indies. There was no wish on his part perhaps, more powerful interests, and to interfere with the question of the an
nual renewal of those duties. It was time of night or a fit state of the House in his wish, indeed, that the whole ques- which to vote away four millions of money tion of their interests should be at once from the pockets of the people. Should placed upon some permanent footing. there be no better relief for the people He could tell the hon. Member for Mid- than had been promised, he feared dlesex that neither those interested in the there would be a convulsive movement East nor the West Indies thanked him of distress in the country. for his interference in this question. His Mr. Ruthven thought sufficient nodoing so was another instance of that ice had not been given of the intention ambition to make himself troublesome to impose four millions of taxes. He for which he had so successfully distin- moved that the Chairman should report guished himself in the present Parlia- progress. ment. (Hear, and a laugh).
Mr. FIELDEN said he rose to second Mr. Hume had no difficulty in as the motion. He was asked to concur signing the reason of the hon. Member's in a vote for continuing the duties on complaint of him. The interest to sugar for one year, and he understood which he was attached had been that this would impose taxes on the making a bargain with the Government people to the amount of four millions by which the public interests were to be sterling. On a former evening he had sacrificed. (Cries of “ No, no”). He stated that great distress prevailed in did not want the thanks of the hon. the country; that in a district within Gentleman. He acted for the public twenty miles of his residences, out of a interests, and not the interests of parties. population of about 200,000, there were He was not aware of having given any 50,000 who had not more than 2 d. a trouble whatever. (Laughter). He de- day each, for food and clothing. He fied any one to show that he had ever had made up the accounts this day, of been actuated by party or factious mo- the returns made by those who had vitives for the last fifteen years. sited the families containing these fifty
Captain Dundas thought the new thousand, and these returns showed, members had been unjustly reproached that these fifty thousand had, on an by the hon. Member for Middlesex for average, only 21d. a head, a day, for non-attendance. He must say that such food and clothing, including parish rehad been the attendance of members lief; and that out of the 50,000, there hitherto of all sorts that there had been werelittle more than 2,000 out of employ. scarcely any possibility of getting seats These poor persons worked hard from in the House. (A laugh). He really did Monday morning till Saturday night, not think it should go forth to the coun- (those capable of working at least), and try, under the solemn denunciation of this was all they and their families had to the hon. Member for Middlesex, that provide them
food and clothing. the whole body of the new members had These persons had heavy grievances to not done their duty, simply because the complain of. He stood here, as their hon. Member for Oldham (Mr. Cobbett) representative, and he required that was not present. (Laughter). For him their grievances should be redressed, self, he begged leave to say that he had before any grant of supplies should be been, and ever should be, as attentive to made; and he for one should not conhis duties in that House as even the sent to any vote of supplies, until a hon. Member himself.
promise were made that these grievances Mr. FAITHFUL was anxious to set should be redressed. He knew that his aside the motion before the House alto-statements had been contradicted. The gether'; but, as a young member, he hon. Member for Huddersfield, whom was not sufficiently acquainted with the he saw from the votes had obtained forms to know how io do so, and he leave of absence for a fortnight, and should be obliged to the right hon. another hon. Member for the county of Gentleman below him (Mr. Goulburn) Derby, had denied the truth of his 10 instruct him. It was not a proper statenents. But he was prepared to
prove all that he had said on this sub-were 40,000 that had not twopence -a ject. He was ill acquainted with the head a day for subsistence; and he had forms and rules of the House, but he received letters from two of these gentook that opportunity of setting himself tlemen, since, corroborating what they thus far right with the House. He had had said to him at Halifax. Besides a been here this day now more than ten partial survey had been made since that hours; and he thought that this had period of families in or near Huddersbeen time enough to sit for the purposes field; and that survey he had received; of legislation, and this alone was a suf- which showed, that of 120 families ficient reason for desiring that the Chair- which had been thus visited, and which man should report progress, and ask contained more than 600 persons, the leave to sit again. When the two hon. members had not more than three-halfGentlemen attempted to throw discredit pence a day each for food and elothing. on his statement, he was in an adjoining He trusted that hon. Gentlemen, when room writing a letter, and he thus lost they came forward to contradict his the opportunity of then rebutting what statements, would be cautious how they they said,
did so; and give the authority, and the Mr. STRICKLAND said he had seen names of the parties on whose veracity letters in the newspapers, and he had such contradiction rested. himself received letters, stating that Mr. Potter thought the present was there was not that degree of misery in not the time for this discussion. In his the manufacturing districts as had been opinion, the remission of the soap-tax represented by the hon. Member for would confer the greatest benefit on the Oldham.
Mr. FIELDEN said the hon. Member Mr. SPRING Rice thought it was for the West Riding of Yorkshire has clear that the supplies should be provided maile some attempt to deny the reality for by some tax. Some hon. Gentleof the distress, which he (the hon. Mem- man thought the reduction of the soapber for Oldham), on a former night tax would be the best; others thought gave his reasons for believing to exist the tax on newspapers should be reat fluddersfield; and hud stated that duced; others were for the reduction of he had seen papers, and had received the sugar-tax. As this was clearly not letters, contradicting the fact of this the fitting occasion for discussing these distress. He, too, (the Member for various subjects, had they not better Oldbam), had heard of an anonymous vote for the resolution before the coin, letter in a Leeds newspaper, contra- mitiee, and defer the general question dicting this fact, and this conimunica- of reduction of taxation to another and tion was signed "H.” He should like more appropriate occasion. to know who “H.” is; and he should Mr. T. FITZGERALD said a few words like to know the names of the parties which were not audible in the gallery. from whom the hon. Member had re- Mr. FIELDEN : The right bon. Genceived his letters. This was not the tleman, the Secretary for the Treasury, way in which he dealt with the House. had said that he understood him (the He
gave the House the names of the Member for Oldham) to say, on a persons from whom he had received former night, that the facts he commuthe statement. He told them that the nicated rested on his own knowledge; Thursday before he came to town, he but he now understood that it was not had met, at Halifax, Captain Wood, of so. He wished to set the right hon. Sandal, Mr. William Stocks, jun., of Secretary right on this point. For the Haddersfield, and another gentleman, distress which he said prevailed in Hudwhose name he believed to be Earn- dersfield and the neighbourhood, he shaw; and that those gentlemen had gave the authority, as he had now done, assured him, that in the division of on which he founded that statement. Upper Aggbrigg, containing a popula. But the distress there was not that tion of 103,000, they believed that there with which he stated himself to be per