| tablish. It was beyond all possibility of cavil stances did not prevail; and that where they or dispute, that those two powers, in the prac did, the case but strengthened the position for tice of the constitution, were by no means so which he was contending. Let them but take distinct as the legislative and judicial for ex- the case of Ireland herself during the short ample. If they were, there might be some period in which she possessed an independent approach to reason in the doctrine maintained Parliament. It was only during eighteen on the other side. They might have a Lord years that there did exist in the British empire Chancellor sitting in Dublin, and another two independent and co-equal legislatures; in London--a Court of King's Bench and though the circumstances under which in both places; but be the theory of the con- they so existed rendered collision exceedingly stitution what it might, no man acquainted difficult-for during the whole of that period, with the working of that constitution could for as was well known to all who heard him, the a moment imagine a total separation of the Irish Houses were managed by that parlialegislative from the executive. For himself, mentary corruption which no one could desire he was disposed to rest the question upon this to be renewed, and the Irish people were overissue-Had or had not the legislative a most awed by a large military force-yet, for all powerful influence upon the executive? Could that, so filled was the system with the seeds theCrown pursue war, or conclude peace, with of disunion, that six years did not elapse from out the consent, and sanction, and support of the declaration of independence till occasion the legislature? War, peace, and all the for a difference of opinion arose. In the year functions of the executive, were, in some de- 1788, George III. was incapacitated by illness gree, dependent upon the legislative; or at from the exercise of the powers appertaining least it could not be denied that the legislative to the kingly office, and according to the exerted a considerable share of power in every constitution the privilege devolved upon part of the duties assigned to the executive. the Parliament of making provision for True it was that the King might choose his the discharge of all those high and own ministers; but he could scarcely maintain important functions. What occurred? The them in office after Parliament had pronounced Parliament of England offered the regency to their condemnation. Doubtless the conduct the Prince of Wales under certain restrictions; of negotiations was intrusted to the monarch; the Parliament of Ireland offered him the but it was well known that the King of this same powers without any restrictions -whatcountry could not pursue any line of foreigu ever. Surely if they possessed the right aud policy for any length of time in opposition the power to make such offer respecting the to the views and feelings of the Parliament conditious upon which the royal functions To all this the advocates of the repeal of the were to be exercised, they possessed as fully union closed their eyes and ears, declaring and could as freely exercise the privilege of that what they desired was to see the executive selecting the individual to whom the appointone and the legislative two. Now the futility ment might be offered, and with quite as of such an opinion could be at once exposed claim of right constitute the Duke of York by a most simple, obvious, and familiar illus-Regent, as extend the powers of the office tration :-Suppose the one legislature voted when vested in the Prince of Wales. They an address in favour of peace, and the other unquestionably might have chosen their own declared for war, what would ensue ? Did regent, and might have invested him with they suppose that there were to be at all foreign such powers as they thought proper; and had states with which we maintained diplomatic George 111. continued for the remainder of his relations two ambassadors-one for England life incapable of the duties of monarch, Engand the other for Ireland? And yet it was land and Ireland would have been for twoimpossible to avoid arriving at that conclusion and-thirty years with a divided executive; if a distinction were established between the and this would have been the unavoidable legislative, and therefore of necessity, between consequence, which was so loudly deprecated the executive powers of the two countries. in the very same breath which sent forth a And what would be the next step? Nogotia- warm recommendation to call into life and tions might be carried on with foreign states, activity the causes from which that conséand the legislature of this country express the quence flowed. (Cheers). Were he to pursue highest approbation of the manner in which the argument further, he could occupy the they might have been conducted-might de-attention of the House with nothing more clare its confidence in, and offer its thanks to, the deplomatic agent employed; while the legislature of the other state might resolve upon his impeachment. Hence, then, he had not the slightest difficulty in saying, that not ten-not five years would elapse before occasions must present themselves, out of which causes of irreconcileable dispute must arise. It had often been supposed that many parallel cases could be referred to; but when those came to be examined, it would, in every instance, be seen that a similarity of circum than reciting such a series of monstrous results, as certainly never before ensued, and which were probably never yet contemplated in reference to any public measure. Not only was all argument opposed to it a priori, but all history would show the scheme to be founded upon a gross and pernicious fallacy. He admitted that some cases bore the appearances of divided legislatures and united crowns, but those appearances were to the utmost degree deceptive; and the more closely they were examined, the more clearly did that character develope itself. It might be in nothing but disappointment and dissension. supposed, for example, that Burgundy and The principles of that union were laid down "Britany were a case in point; but there it and established by that convention at which could not fail at once to strike the most cursory Washington himself presided; and yet, after observer, that there was no check upon the the comparatively short period of forty-three executive. Let them take another example: years, they were now dissolving; and were Bohemia and the Tyrol, united, so far as the spreading, in the act of that dissolution, all executive was concerned, under the House of the evils that of necessity flow from division Austria; but their legislatures, like those of and its immediate concomitant—weakness. Britany and Burgundy, existed only in Impossible, then, as it would be to define the name, the whole power was vested in the powers of the local legislature, as compared sovereign. The idea of united executives and with the imperial-unprovided as the authors distinct legislatures was condemned by all of such a plan were with the means of obreason, and falsified by all experience. (Loud viating the mischiefs which must ensue from cheers). He felt that in discussing a question collision, otherwise than by an appeal to phyof that nature, he had great difficulties to sical force-he hesitated not to say, that a contend with, for no distinct plan had been total and immediate separation of the two disclosed to Parliament, nothing specific was countries would be far preferable to any such proposed; amongst the many crude notions, scheme. The hon. and learned Member for however, which had been put forth upon Dublin had often said, that he should regret the subject, there was one published in the complete separation of the two countries, the newspapers-he alluded to the project as a grievous calamity; but he believed it of a federal union, with distinct local would not be disputed for a moment by any Houses of Assembly, and one Supreme Legis- intelligent or impartial man, that the immelature meeting in London. But there just the diate effect of the arrangement which that same difficulties would present themselves; hon. and learned Gentleman had in view for, under such circumstances, to define the would be speedily to bring about and power of each distinct branch of the legisla- irreversibly to establish that separation ture would be wholly impossible. A difference which he professed to be most anxious of opinion between the two, Houses of Parlia- to avoid. If the separation of the two ment would be, under any circumstances, bad countries could not be prevented, let that enough, and present abundance of difficulties. be at once candidly and manfully acknowBut even for those extreme cases, the consti-ledged, and let the people of both countution had provided a remedy, since the King tries prepare, as they best might, for the could dissolve the House of Commons, if such separation thus said to be inevitable. But so seemed the most expedient course; or create long as he had a voice in the councils of this new peers, should his Majesty be so advised. country, no consideration should induce him Queen Anne, in 1704, and again in 1711-12, to consent to laying the foundation, according reconciled differences between the two Houses, as the Member for Dublin would recommend, by the interposition of the royal prerogative. for an eventual separation under circumIn the case of Lord Aylesbury, she dissolved stances which could not fail to be deeply disthe House of Commons; and in that of the astrous. To that member he should then Treaty of Utrecht, she created new peers. make his appeal to him who now boasted These, however, as the House well knew, that he stood between the Government of this were powers that ought to be reserved for ex-country and a civil war-and he would tell treme cases; but still they were inherent in the monarch, and afforded the means of saving the constitution from wreck, and the nation from an appeal to physical force. But in the case of such a union as that which seemed to enter into the minds of the advocates of the repeal of the existing legislative union, what provision had been made for the effect of those collisions that of necessity must arise before many years could pass away? Of the insufficiency of any such federal union as that which had been mentioned, he need not pass from the present times to find a powerful exemplification. In that great federal union, the constitution of which was not above forty-three or forty-four years old-a constitution which was formed by men who, though opposed to the rule of the mother country, were now never mentioned here otherwise than with reverence-they had at the present moment a striking and practical confirmation of the truth, that unions of the nature to be established by the proposed repeal could end him that he grievously mistook the present the same individual to one side of a ques tion, and that equally forcible arguments might be used by that identical person on the other side. He had no doubt that the acade mic experience of his hon. Friend could fur nish him with many anecdotes of these penned on both sides, of almost any question usually offered for such discussions. He would also be ready to acknowledge that the force aud value of arguments depended a to gether upon their appositeness. The same speech might certainly be made for Thistle he was prone to argue pro hoc, ergo propter hoc. an individual as he was, would construe them But in another point of view, the honourable according to the occasion; and that, in using and learned Gentleman seemed to reverse the general arguments, their appositeness would argument, and instead of saying that Tenter- be fairly tried. His honourable Friend, the den steeple was the cause of Godwin Sands, member for Lincoln, was too good a scholar took it into his head to suppose that Godwin not to know that general and abstract arguSands were the cause of Tenterden steeple.ments might be applied with equal skill byr In effect, he seemed to contend that, as there were certain local grievances, there should therefore be a local legislature. Before the revision of the Welsh judicature in that House, they had heard loud and bitter complaints of the mischief which in that part of the empire Lowed from the imperfect manner in which justice was administered. But was there any human being irrational enough to contend that such a state of things warranted a legislative separation? He had himself, times out out of number, complained of the local grievances affecting the Duchy of Corn-wood and the Cato-street conspirators on the wall; but would any man gravely assert,on that one hand, and for Russell and Sydney on the account the county of Cornwall should be the other; but then, could indifferent persons seat of an independent legislative body? The overlook the difference between the two cases? town which he represented complained, with His hon. Friend must believe as he did, that great justice perhaps with great earnestness, the whole of the agitation which had been excertainly- of the inconvenience it suffered cited respecting the union was a mere delufrom the peculiar constitution of its corporate sion-the measure fortunately was impossi body; but it never entered into the minds of ble, since any approximation to success in the good people of Leeds to seek for a remedy such a case could be nothing less than ruin according to the prescription of the bun, and to both countries, and to no part of the em learned Member for Dublin. (Cheers). He pire more completely destructive than to Ire would beg of the House to recall to mind, if land herself. It was beyond all possibility of: it had ever made itself acquainted with the dispute, that nine-tenths of the evils of which arguments which the hon. aud learned Mem- Ireland had to complain arose out of misgober used elsewhere, or which, if not used by vernment; but were they therefore to submit him, were certainly urged by other advocates to outrages against all law, and offences of repeal: and they would perceive that not against the first principles of justice? - Agrione of them was inapplicable to a legislative cultural property had been in many places de separation between the north aud the south of stroyed in England, and much of that had Ireland. Between those two parts of that arisen from a long-continued course of misisland there were all those differences of re- government; but was the dignity of the law ligion, of race, of habits, of civilization, and not therfore to be vindicated, and were the of every distinction on which stress had been offenders to go unpunished? If the revenue laid, either by him or his supporters. The laws were faulty, as in many cases they were, honourable and learned Gentleman had main were smugglers to go unpunished, and remain a tained that however the present executive and at perfect liberty to shoot revenue officers legislative Government of England might be when and where they thought proper? He disliked by the Protestants of Ireland, they acknowledged, that from the possible rejection detested the Catholics still more; and of the Reform Bill he had anticipated outrage that in any case where the conviction of a Ca- and violence; but were the men who burned tholic was desired, they only needed to fill the Bristol therefore to go unpunished? Out of jury-box with Protestants. Would not that the hou. Member's own mouth would he judgew circumstance of itself, be sufficient to warrant him. He told them that things had come to the consistent, but at the same time most ab- such a pass, that nothing less than decisive surd conclusion, that there should be for Ire-measures would do; but at the same time he land herself one House of Assembly sitting in told his Majesty's Government, that if matters Derry, to give effect to the sentiments of Pro- arrived at a certain point, he should, however testants; and another establishment in Cork, reluctantly, join their ranks and afford them to give effect to Catholic feeling, and the support which the occasion might require maintain Catholic interests? (Cheers). These-then between him and his hon. Friend it brief remarks, he believed, constituted the best vindication he could offer for his own personal consistency, and the best defence that he could lay before. the House of those passages which had been read from speeches of his made during the discussion of the Reform Bill. He did hope that the House, in considering the sentiments of even so humble was a mere question of time, since upon prin- . ciple they fully agreed; he being prepared in a certain imaginable case to do all that the most zealous supporter of the existing union could desire. His hon. Friend demanded redress for the people of Ireland. Could he on such a point differ from his hon. Friend? He besitated not to declare that he should hold office under no Government which had not pledged | order that the Member for Dublin should not itself to a redress of grievances; but they be less than a British subject, and he was had now not only to redress grievances, but prepared to encounter equal reproach, oblo to deal with something worse than civil war-quy, and deprivation, in order to prevent his they had to deal with a people, where in one ever becoming more. (Loud and long-concounty, in the course of the year, no fewer tinued cheering). He had now the happiness than sixty murders and attempts at murder aud the honour, under a new regime, to were committed, and 600 burglaries. Why represent thousands of constituents, and that was equal to the sack of three or four he believed he spoke their sentiments on towns. He had no difficulty in declaring that that occasion-sentiments which, he had the he should infinitely rather be in the midst of best reason for knowing, were not inconsistent what was called civil war-he should much with his holding office under the present adprefer to have been in the line of march of the ministration; and he rejoiced to live in an Pretender's army, in the year 1745, when the age and country where the duties of a repreChevalier St. George marched through Car-sentative of the people were not inconsistent lisle or the other towns he entered, than reside with those of a servant of the crown. In the in Ireland under such circumstances. It discharge then, of his duties in both capaciwas idle to deny that the present condition of ties, he felt perfect satisfaction in giving his Ireland was something worse than civil war. assent to that part of the address which But they were threatened with the universal pledged the House, with the blessing of God, demand of the people of Ireland for repeal. to use every effort for the continuance of that Was that cry more formidable than others union which now happily subsisted between which they had cheerfully encountered? The this country and Ireland, for supporting the men who had faced the cry of "No Popery !" | rights of property, maintaining order, and had nothing to apprehend from any clamour preserving the fabric of society. (Enthusiastic that might be raised in the present times; cheering). they were aot likely to shrink from the shout Mr. O'CONNELL wished to say a few words of "Repeal." The time he felt assured would in explanation, to which he would strictly come when Ireland would do justice to her confine himself. The hon. Member who sincere and honest friends; to the men who spoke last had entirely mistaken his argufor her sake quitted office in the year 1807, ment. He (Mr. Macaulay) had said, that he and remained shut out from her for twenty (Mr. O'Connell), after having detailed existyears, that she might receive a full measure ing grievances in Ireland, attributed them to of justice. Those were men not likely to the legislative union; and that he had argued quit under a temporary show of unpopularity, against that union by reason of those grievwho had encountered its reality for so many ances. This was a total misapprehension; years; who had endured the frowns of the for he (Mr. O'Connell) had addressed the Court, and the bisses of the multitude; who entire of his speech to that part of the address had foregone power, honour, and emolument, from the throne which related to the great inwithout even enjoying the compensation of crease of disturbances in Ireland. His argupopularity: those were not the men to be ment was, that property was rendered insescared from the strict line of duty by any- cure, and insubordination and violence prothing which a temporary and evanescent dis-duced, by the grievances he enumerated; and content might occasion. (Loud and continued cheering). Amongst them were those who might have obtained not only seats in the House, but in the Cabinet, were they only Mr. SHEIL said there was a practical antiwilling to utter one word against the Catholic thesis, amounting to contradiction, in the claims, and who, rather than utter that little course pursued by the Member for Leeds (Mr. word, encountered the fiercest abuse, and sub- Macaulay); for while he enters into a most mitted to the most unsparing censure; and elaborate discussion on the union, which he who, ere they would depart from the prin- assumes is unpremeditated, he supports an ciples upon which they took their stand, re- address which recommends the extinction of tired into private life, and relinquished all the all argument, puts an end to debate, strikes views of an honourable ambition, that they Ireland dumb, and claps a padlock on her lips, might not betray the cause in which the hon. though it never can stop the throbbings of her and learned Member for Dublin had so deep an big and indignant heart. (Hear, hear, hear). interest. To promote that interest the indivi- What a strange proceeding on the part of the duals who now formed the administration of Member for Leeds-to discuss the question Lord Grey, incurred the disapprobation and the himself, and to deny eight millions the right hostility which excluded them from office for to entertain it-to recommend the suspension a quarter of a century, and that for the pur- of the Habeas Corpus Act, in order to commit pose of placing the hon. and learned Member all argument in Ireland to incarceration, for Dublin where he then was. He (Mr. while he himself wantons and luxuriates in so Macaulay), according to his station and abi-wide a field of discursive expatiation. (Hear, lities, might be reckoned one of the number hear, hear). Perhaps he conceives that he who struggled against the adverse feelings of has advanced arguments so irresistible—that the great and the huzzas of the multitude, in his dialectics are so convincing-that there so little had he said of the union, that he had been actually taunted with having left it out of the question. welfare of the British Empire. It is this species of union, and this only, that can tend to increase the real strength of the empire, and give it security against any danger. But if any measure, with the name only of union be proposed, and the tendency of which would be is such a power of reasoning, amounting to never have given utterance to language so demonstration, in his speech, that he has put entirely at variance with the opinion of the an end to all loubt, extinguished scepticism as Member for Leeds. The following is an exeffectually as the address suppresses liberty, tract from his speech, which does not apply closed the door on all dispute, and established exclusively to the past, but is prospective, and conviction on the basis of immutable and supplies an argument for repeal. Lord Grey deeply-founded truth. One could, however, said, on the 7. of February, 1799 (it is rehave desired that, having taken the subject in ported in page 338 of the 34th volume of hand, he had touched on some topics which Hansard)"What I most heartily wish for appear to us not irrelevant-that he had is, a union between the two countries. By adverted to the fiscal and moral evils of union I mean something more than a mere absenteeism, had explained the causes word--a union not of parliaments, but of of the misery and destitution of Ire-hearts, affections, and interests-a union of land, had exhibited the advantages of vigour, of ardour and zeal for the general our provincial dependence, and shown us the benefits of having the English members overwhelm on Irish questions the majority of Irish members in this House: but instead of doing so, he delights us with an enchanting allusion, derived from the Siamese Twius. (Cheers and laughter). But while the honour-only to disunite us, to create disaffection, disable Gentleman thus gave way to the spirit of rust, and jealousy, it can only tend to weaken fanciful illustration, he was unconsciously the whole of the British Empire. Of this naoffending us with an image of our calamitous ture do I take the present measure to be. Discondition. We are indeed linked in an un- content, distrust, jealousy, and suspicion, are fortunate brotherhood; tied together with no the visible fruits of it already. If you persist in ligature through which the vital principle of it, resentment will follow, and although you international feeling can circulate (hear, hear, should be able, which I doubt, to obtain a hear,)-bound with a reciprocity of inconve-seeming consent of the Parliament of Ireland nience, and irritated by the common incon-to the measure, yet the people of that country veniences resulting from ourjuuction. (Cheers). How, then, could the honourable Member for Leeds indulge in this metaphorical mal-apropos? At first he (Mr. Sheil) could not account for it, but on application, he recollected that the honourable Member had answered the speech of the distinguished author of "The Siamese Twins." His habits as a critic interfered with his political purpose, and the image presented by the work of Mr. Bulwer was so much pressed upon his memory, that he rushed into a simile that refutes his argument, and furnishes us with the best picture of our melancholy condition. (Cheers). The honourable Gentleman had referred to the favours conferred on Ireland by the Whigs. (Hear hear). He (Mr. Sheil) was most prompt to recognise them, and, above all, to offer his homage to the vast services conferred by Lord Grey, who had always proved himself the devoted friend of Ireland. would wait for an opportunity of recovering their rights, which they will say were taken from them by force." (Loud cheers from the Irish members). Is not this prophetic? Is not this the language of a man anticipating repeal, and almost supporting it? How can this language be reconciled to the speech of the Gentleman who spoke from the Treasury bench; and, what is far more important, to the Speech which Lord Grey has been supposed to dictate to his Majesty? And what does that Speech recommend? An entire suppression of all reasoning on the subject. It enjoins silence. It says, not only shall you not have repeal, but you shall not dare to demand it. The Habeas Corpus Act is to be suspended—the principles of British liberty are to be trampled under foot-the prerogative is to be strengthened-the sceptre is to be laden with iron-what was carried by corruption is to be secured by oppression ;-nay, more the boast of Britons-the pride of the sustainMr. SHEIL. At all events, he was so at the ment-the ornament and the prop of the discussion of the union. (Hear, hear). Charles constitution, of all that we hold valuable and Grey (and between Lord Grey and Charles dear-the trial by jury is to be at an end. Grey there was little difference) opposed the (Lond cheers). Good God! Is it Lord Grey, union. He predicted the evils that would re-just fresh from the triumph of reform, who sult from it, and almost drew a picture of the scenes which are now passing before our eyes. So far, therefore, from dissenting from the panegyric on Lord Grey, every Irishman should concur in encompassing him with encomium. What a pity it is, for Lord Grey's sake, that the Member for Leeds is so young a man; had he been beside him in 1799, he, of course, would have urged, with convincing effect, all the arguments which he has advanced with such force, and Lord Grey would Mr. O'CONNELL.-No, no! recommends this? Oh, no!-there is, there must be some superior spirit of domination in the Cabinet, who exercises a fatal ascendency, and is the evil genius of Ireland. (Hear, hear.) But he (Mr. Sheil) had not done with appeals to the authority of Lord Grey. It was pleasurable to refer to him. Lord Grey, in the same speech says, "Look at the history of Ireland, and you will find, that had it not been for British councils and British intrigue, none, or at least few of the evils which |