now prevails to the fullest extent; and I call which he complains. Why, sir, these grievthe attention of the House to the enumeration ances are too deeply seated to be remedied by I am about to make. The two counties are one act of any legislature, however willingly Kilkenny and the Queen's county. Ia Kil- disposed to do so. (Hear, hear). But if you kenny alone, within the last 12 months, there are called on to remedy these grievances, are have been 32 murders and attempts to mur. you to be called on to do so uuder the terror der, 34 burnings, 519 burglaries, 36 acts of of a civil war, when life is threatened, prohoughing of cattle, and the number of illegal perty insecure, and anarchy prevails, qualified notices and violent and serious assaults, by only by the despotism of some self-styled which I mean assaults attended with danger liberal. (Loud cheers). To call on the British to life and limb, has been 170. In Queen's Parliament to remedy grievances in this state county the nuinber has been even more. of things, is not calling on them to legislate, There have been 60 murders or attempts to but to crouch in submission. (Hear, hear). murder; burglaries, 626; malicious injuries The bonourable and learned Member has said to property, 115; and serious assaults upon that he shall be satisfied with a promise of individuals, 209. I have made out this cata- redress of grievances, and that if that promise logue, which I believe too truly bears out the is made, he shall not refuse extraordinary position in his Majesty's speech, which has powers. In the customary terms of speech, not been denied by the hon. and learned Gen- it is not possible for his Majesty to point out tleman himself, of the fearful increase of crime more clearly the grievances under which Irein Ireland; and I will now only add one cir- land suffers. But has she suffered from these cumstance; that this list, formidable as under the union only? Are these evils of it is, contains but a small portion of yesterday? Have they been inflicted by the those acts of violence which have actu- English Parliament alone? Were there no ally been committed. These are only complaints, no disturbances, when a domestic those which have been represented to legislature swayed the power of Government in the police; one hundred rewards, amounting Ireland? (Hear, hear). Were none of these to 12,0007., have been offered by the Govern evils originated by a legislature, corrupted, ment, and of these two only have been claimed. perhaps, by England, and ruled by her power, So complete is the system of disorganization and compelled to yield obedience to her -so fearful is the discipline of these ma- authority, but existing in all the vigour of rauders so extensive is the connexion of fancied independence? Let the task of the these disturbers of the public peace, that the remedy be undertaken by a British legisvictims dare not complain; they are com- lature, not governed, however, by those pelled to suffer in silence, and, knowing the angry and party feelings which the honourable individuals by whom they have been attacked, and learned Gentleman so well conceals under to submit implicitly, and without a murmur, that philosophy with which he addresses this to the commands of those whom they know House. Let the care of this Parliament be to to have the means of death in their hands, examine substantive grievances, to remedy and whom I can qualify with no lighter term real complaints, but let them do this with than that of insurgents. This is the state of power in their hands, and let them amend the things in Ireland. Is it a state in which we laws only while they possess the power of concan say that the law is respected? I feared trolling those who live under them, and while almost that we should be taunted by those the laws are obeyed so long as they are in who, in this House last year, accused us of existence. (Hear, hear). The hon. Gentlesupineness, and that they should now charge man who spoke last, told us an anecdote which the Government with not having used with excited much laughter among some hon. sufficient severity the powers they possessed. Members, but which, if looked at seriously, If that is a fault we must acknowledge our- is calculated to excite feelings of the deepest selves guilty; we were willing to trust to the compassion, and to produce a clear conviction law-to hope that it was adequate to its pur- in the mind of every man, that the power of poses; and knowing the evils-the perpetual England must be put forth for the protection discords occasioned by a Government going of its subjects. (Hear, hear, hear). Can Parbeyond the law, we wished not till the last liament hear with indifference that a clergyextremity, to call for extraordinary powers. man, an amiable man, has had his property But placed as we are, even taking the descrip- attacked, his life threatened, his peace distion of the honourable and learned Member turbed, the happiness and security of his himself as to the state of the Catholic popula- family destroyed, and all this not on the tion-a description he has studiously put forth, charge of endeavouring to enforce beyond the and in which he represents that population as law the rights to which by law he was entiarmed, and ready to enter into a servile war tled-not even for pressing for that which the (hear, from Mr. O'Connell) a description law would afford him, but, on the contrary, which he now affirms by his cheer; but not-after having exerted the utmost benevolence, withstanding which, he tells us that we ought and after having devoted one-half of his innot to come down and ask Parliament for come in relieving the poor? I admit the evils powers to suppress these disorders till Par- of the system of tithes now existing in freliament has remedied, of course to his satis- land; but is it conceivable that it should faction, (a laugh), all those grievances of cause such a proscription of a humane and him? To plead guilty to every count of the useful body of men, whose ouly crime is that declared that a letter tending to excite a com- bear, hear!" from the opposition benches). The honourable Gentleman claims the exclusive merit of having effected emancipation. I will say nothing of the taste, the good feeling, or the gratitude this evinces for those who, during so many long years, advocated that measure. For myself, I can say not a word, because I supported it during no more than seven years; but can I overlook the services of those men whose votes and speeches continued to produce increasing majorities in Parliament, until at length the Ministers of the Crown yielded Emaucipation? I will now turn to the charge of not having placed Ca- | hon. Gentleman had charged the English tholics in places of trust and power. What is Government with systematic misconduct tothe fact? Where is the system of neglect wards Ireland. For this purpose, he had gone pursued towards the Catholics? Let the very far, indeed; he had ascended to the House look to the total quantity of legal pro- times of Elizabeth, and endeavoured to show, motion by the Whigs; let it also look to the that the Saxon Government of those days was previous exclusion of Catholics, and then say the same as the present. He had gone back, whether they had not their fair share of places not only needlessly and causelessly, but misand offices?-Two sergeants-at-law had been chievously, and had at length alluded to Ameappointed; one was a gentleman of liberal rica, as if she could be a parallel case to that principles, and high in professional character of Ireland. Of what, let me ask, did America the present member for Monaghan: the complain? Does he understand the question other sergeant was a Catholic.-Two king's he has alluded to? The Americans complained counsel had been appointed, and both were in being taxed without having a voice in the Catholics. One was Mr. Wolfe, and of the legislature that imposed the tax-of being thus other I shall say no more than that the dis- deprived of the distinctive right and privilege tinction was deemed due to his legal and pro- of Englishmen; and it was in such a case as -fessional character. There had been two this that they made the last appeal to physical -assistant barristers; one was a Catholic: power. (Hear, hear). Will the hon. Gentleeleven clerks of the Crown, of whom four or men say that this is a parallel to the condifive were Catholics. There had been one tion of Ireland, I grant it might have been mastership in Chancery, and that was given so before 1782-it might have been so when to a Catholic, a gentleman whose talents and the privy council of England controlled as it knowledge fully merited it. One cursitor was chose the bills of the Irish Parliament-it appointed, and he was a Catholic. These might have been so when the Crown assumed things I state, to show the systematic dis- the right of disposing of the surplus revenue, regard of the honourable Gentleman for facts without rendering any account to the represen(Cheers). He complaius, moreover, that tatives of the people; but I say that there exthere is but one Catholic sheriff. He knows ists no parallel whatever between both cases, that the sheriffs in Ireland are chosen as when Ireland possesses her fair share in the in England-that the Government must Imperial legislature, and is heard with as select one out of a a list of three, and much favour as Yorkshire or Scotland. generally the highest on the list. If, there- (Cheers). The hon. Gentleman says, that fore, there be no Catholic sheriffs, Govern- none but the King, Lords, and Commons of ment is not to blame; it can merely make Ireland, are competent to bind her. I admit a selection. But is it not strange that no that, but they merged in the King, Lords, and Catholic can accept office, without being Commons, as at present constituted; and the stigmatized and cried down as having betrayed Irish branches of the legislature stood on the and sold his country to the Government, and same footing with the English and Scotch this by the very individuals who complain of members of it. As the hon. Gentleman has the exclusion of Catholics from power? The not touched on repeal, I will not go into that hon. Gent. says that extraordinary powers are question now. My object is to refute his unnecessary, because Mr. Barrington, the charges against the Government; though the crown solicitor for the Munster district, says King's speech has already refuted the most >there are no offences perpetrated not punish-important of them; for how could it, in the able by the existing law. There can be few face of that speech, be asserted that Ministers better authorities than Mr. Barrington on really intended nothing on the subject of the that subject. But what avails that when the Irish church? The amount of tithes, in the law cannot be euforced; when it is a mere face of the House, the hon. Gentleman had dead letter; when intimidation has reached asserted-had ventured to assert was onesuch a height, that witnesses will not give tenth of the total produce. Now every witevidence, nor juries be found to attend for ness's evidenge went to show every perthe trial of offences? If they attend and give son who examined the evidence knew, that, verdicts against the accused, their houses so far from being what the honourable are burned, their crops destroyed; and it has Gentleman had asserted, it was not even been at the same time declared, that this is one-tenth of the rent. Tell me of the the vengeance exacted for having solemnly commutation in Scotland: there it was calcugiven a conscientious verdict from the jury-lated as the fifth part of the rent; but we box. On the other hand, some (there have been but a few instances of this condescension) have had their crops saved, without the least *expense to themselves, because they gave a popular vote for men accused of popular delinquencies. (Hear, hear). Trial by jury was a mockery, where violence and outrage thus prevailed; when there was no hope of getting evidence, even though the real criminals were as notorious as the sun at noon-day. The brought in a bill which fixed it in Ireland at the tenth part of the rent; and did more, for we propose a means by which the landlord can get rid of it altogether, by a fair and equitable commutation. I will not enter into the question of alterations made by the bill of last year; but this I say, that without augmenting the ultimate payment, it substituted a fixed sum instead of a growing one, whatever might be the powers of the soil or state of cultivation, and made it rest finally on the tuted by the King's attorney for the amount landlord. The fairness of Ministers' inten- of tithes actually paid. If the hon. Member tions, and their anxiety to deal in due time had been intelligible last session, much trouwith so important a question, might have been ble and bloodshed would have been spared. concluded from the motion (of which notice The people had committed excesses, it is true, had been given) upon the state of the Irish but these excesses they were goaded into. It church, its revenues, and their distribution. was a monstrous thing, as the hon. Member (Hear, hear). Upon the motion with which for Hull had said, that a set of people should the hon. Gentleman concluded I shall touch | go to an island and carry off all the rents, and as little as he himself did. It was, I pre-expect the people to be quiet. There had been sume, merely intended as a vehicle for certain a patience of six hundred years, and a patience charges, which I have sought to answer; and of twenty-five years since the union, and all 1 will conclude by declaring that we must along au ardent desire for separation. There make law respected and Government feared, had been a Tory party in Ireland, but it was before it is beloved in Ireland; and that Par-gone. There was a Whig party, but they must liament is bound to invest Government with those means of coercion which are absolutely necessary. (Hear, hear). Mr. O'CONNELL rose to explain a mistake or misrepresentation concerning what he had said. He did not complain of the postponing Catholics generally, nor had he imputed the small number of Catholic sheriffs to a fixed design on the part of Government. The real charge referred expressly to the stipendiary magistrates, of whom there were no less than twenty-six. It was in that quarter he said Catholics were thrust into the back ground. take care that their party did not go off too. It was a dreadful thing to see military going from parish to parish for the protection of an unfortunate cow. (Laughter and cries of Oh!). The army was degraded by such a service. (Oh!). He was present at such a place where two English officers were sent on this duty, and both expressed the greatest dissatisfaction at the service, degrading them to pig-sellers. Besides they were acting contrary to law, for he could prove seizures for tithe in the year 1832. Besides, no magistrate, high or low, has any right to call out the military, except where there is a riot. He remembers reading an old Irish book of a victorious circuit made by some tion. His Majesty's Ministers seemed to wish to revive this circuit. The Marquis of Anglesea had expressed himself dissatisfied with the employment of a military force. He himself was attached to the English people, not on account of their wealth and talent, for there was as much talent in Ireland, but on account of their institutions. He trusted that hereafter it would not be adduced, that after 600 years of government, there were two great parties dominant-Tories, who supported the pitchcap and triaugle; and Whigs, who supported the bayonet aud bullet. Ireland, he was well convinced, could never be held by such means. ADJOURNED DEBATE. Mr GRATTAN had never been more astonished or indiguant than at the conduct of the Secretary for Ireland throughout. The con-judge 1ound Ireland, there being no opposiduct of Ministers was now worse than ever, when they called upon a reformed Parliament to punish a whole country for the excesses of two counties. To subject the whole of Ireland to penal law, suspending juries everywhere such a thing was never heard of in England. When the Habeas Corpus had been suspended there, it was on general reasons and minute inquiry. Never, under the most tyrannical reigns, had the most tyrannical Ministry ever proposed such a thing to the most slavish of Parliaments. As to the present speech, it was a poor, meagre speech; unjust, unworthy, and artificial. The whole intention was to stop the question about the union; but this could not be done; none of their fine proclamations had ever done it, nor would this. None of the facts of the case had been stated. No mention made of the twenty-two gentlemen sent to Ireland for the purpose of inves. tigation, nor of the many other gentlemen who had declared that coercion there would never attain its end. No mention made of the evidence given by Mr. O'Connor of the state of abject poverty of the inhabitants, dying of starvation, and naked in the ditches -an account to harrow up the soul. No mention of the fact, that out of 8,000,000 of the people, only 1,600,000 could get employment, and that of the most wretched description. The point is to remedy this people's great grievances; to give them food or the means of getting it. With respect to tithes, Government had sent its officer, who got up 5,000 different actions for the amount of so many farthings on account of tithes. He had known of proceedings insti Wednesday, 6. Feb. Mr. MACAULAY said, that last night he had formed the intention of not taking part in the present debate; but circumstances that had this evening arisen determined him to adopt an opposite course, and to say a few words in reply to the attack that had been made upon him by his honourable Friend the Member for Lincoln; at the same time that he felt that he should quite as well discharge the duty which he owed to himself, and much better consult what was due to the House, by postponing the defence of his own personal consistency until after he had more directly addressed himself ' to the question which mainly occupied the attention of the House. His honourable Friend, so ingenious in the construction of an argument, and so successful in making a point, was sometimes not always aware of the effect of the words which he used. His ho stained from improving that opportunity, and had not accepted the challenge of those who stood strong in their defence of the lesgislative union, the repeal of which was supposed by the Member for Dublin to be the panacea for all the evils with which Ireland was afflicted. Now he (Mr. Macaulay) was prepared to show; that so far from being likely to promote that desirable consummation, it would have the effect of altogether defeating it, and ag. gravating every one of the causes of discon nourable Friend told the House that the Go-question of repeal; yet he had cautiously abvernment proposed coercion, while the honourable and learned Member for Dublin recommended redress. When called upon to choose between both, the honourable Member for Lincoln declared that he could not hesitate; but he was sure that, upon reflection, his honourable Friend would see that he and the honourable and learned Member for Dublin did not attach the same meaning to the words that the one was the first to use, and that the other had but too readily adopted. The honourable and learned Member for Dub-tent at present in operation. If they wished lin meant repeal of the union-to that his honourable Friend was adverse. When they were told that the affairs of Ireland ought to be investigated, after the fullest inquiry, and after the gravest debate, he could not help putting the question, whose fault was it that they had no full and formal debate upon the subject? He demanded to know why it was that the question had not been fully agitated? Had not his Majesty's Government given the challenge, and was it not fully in the recollection of the House, that the honourable and learned Member for Dublin had addressed them for two or three hours-he forgot how long, for no one could consider the time long while that gentleman continued speaking; but had he not spoken for hours, without opening the question of the union in a manuer that could be grappled with, or indeed fairly encountered at all? This he could not help thinking the more remarkable, when he remembered that that honourable and learned Member had already placed fourteen notices on the book, and that not one of them related to the subject of the legislative union between Great Britain and Ireland. He had no difficulty, then, in saying, that the honourable and learned Member had permitted judgment to go against him by default. Honourable Members at that side of the House (the ministerial) had called upon the honourable and learned Member to proceed, but he had declined the invitation-he shrunk-he skulked from the opportunity of giving effect in that House to the doctrines which he had promulgated elsewhere with so much vehemence, and accompanied with so much of personal invective and abjurgation. It was impossible for any man in that House to deny that the honourable and learned Member had not only neglected to take advantage of the opportunity offered to him, but instead of making any approach towards joining issue upon it, he had delivered on the preceding night one of the most evasive speeches that had ever been uttered within the walls of Parliament. From the beginning to the end he had most carefully and studiously avoided meeting the question of the proposed repeal. He should be the last in the world to deny that that speech was not very able and eloquent, but though the most ample opportunity had been afforded the honourable and learned Member by the occasion which then presented itself, to press upon the attention of the House the to separate the crowns of England and Ire- |