which the petitioners omitted a reform of ex- | the power of the King's servants, to cause the pense as the chief object of the prayed-for re- payment of this pension to cease. He spoke form. I defy the noble Lord (Morpeth) to as if he could drive a bargain with the right point out one such petition presented during hon. Gentleman, and make a contract with the last five-and-twenty years. When it was him, that should he be re-elec·ed, his retired prayed that the abuses which had crept into pension should cease. The late Parliament the constitution should be removed, that bestowed 4,000l. a year on their Speaker at prayer was invariably coupled with oue for the his retirement from office, aud 3,000l. a year removal of those burdens which had been un- for his son, or any male heir (I suppose). It justly imposed on the people of this country- was an Act of Parliament that bestowed these I mean every single pension which is not peusious, and nothing can rescind it but anfully merited by well-known services to the other Act of Parliament; and, in my opinion, country. This is, in fact, what the people had the noble Lord is quite mistaken as to the uppermost in their minds when they spoke on meaning of that Act. 1 will ask the hon. the subiect of reform. It would be ill an- Member for Ireland (I don't recollect the parswering their expectations, if a reformed ticular place just now that he is Member for, House were to commence its labours by im- and I call him, thereffore, the Member for posing an additional burden. What! will a Ireland)-I ask, then, the hon. Member for reformed House of Commons continue to Ireland, who is a lawyer, whether there must make the poor man pay forty times as much not be another Act of Parliament before the for articles of consumption as the rich man, in pension can be rescinded? It is not a bargain proportion to his means? According to or contract, and nothing can take the pension Cocker (who has lately been set up as an ob-away but another Act of Parliament. How ject to appeal to), the poor man pays forty much honesty, moderation, and merciful contimes as much in some cases as the rich man sideration of the people there was in a transacdoes. But not only does the right hon. Gention by which he was rewarded for filling his tleman seek to take this pension of 4,000/. late situation for sixteen years, by losing bimself, but to continue to his sun too a pen- 6,0907. a year on his retirement, and receiving sion of 3,000l. for his life also-all for services 5,000l. instead, for doing nothing, I will not performed during sixteen years-for which now stop to consider. He has got his hand in services the father bad been fully and amply the people's pockets, and he will not soon remunerated. During these years the Right draw it out. The noble Lord thinks the penHon. Charles Manners Sutton received about sion will cease on his being re elected; but, oee hundred thousand pounds for the per depend upon it, it will not cease. What is formance of his duty as chairman of the the situation, then, in which the House is now House of Commons; and now the country has placed with respect to this appointment? If to pay pensions for two lives, which (reckon- the right hon. Charles Manners Sutton ing these lives to last a reasonable time) may should be re-elected, as apparently he will enable them (from father and son) to receive be (and I know nothing of the right ho200,0001. more. With their pockets already nourable Gentleman's qualifications, for I crammed with the people's money, they must never saw him in his chair in my life, and pocket twice as much more. (Here Mr. Cobbet know nothing at all about him but as a heavy excited the meriment of the House by address-pensioner)-if he be re-elected, the House ing a remark to Mr.Lee, whose official duties be- tells the people that their hopes will be disfore the choice of a Speaker render him for the appointed, because the people will judge of time a very important personage in the House their future conduct from their appointment of Commons). Is this the way in which the of a man who has driven such bargains with House is to show the people that they can de- regard to the money of the people. Such an pend upon them? The thing now wanted is appointment shall not receive my assent; and a patient waiting on the part of the suffering there are, I have no doubt, a good many others and oppressed people. To have this patient who will not agree to it. Suppose the right waiting, we must have their confidence in us; hon. Gentleman to be appointed Speaker of then they will be patient as children are with this House. If the House chose to do it, it their parents, because they are sure that they could not then undo it. The hon. Gentleman mean them well. But to have their confi-might go immediately and sell his pension, dence, are we about to tell the over-taxed which he may do if he chooses-he may go people, the people who are in a state of this afternoon and sell it as an annuity for his suffering (as will soon be shown by my hon. life if he chooses to do so. Will the House Colleague) such as cannot be described-a state that no one could believe unless he saw it while the people are paying five shillings per pound for that which they ought to have for fifteen-peuce; were they about to tell the people that no relief was to be expected from them, as they would in effect do, if the first act of that House were to be the placing of that man in the chair? The noble Lord Althorp has talked as if it were in

consent to injustice so flagrant? Are we going to say to the uation, Lok up to this man, with his pockets crammed with the people's money, as the Speaker of the reformed House of Commons-as the first commoner of England? Is this the way (looking round at Sir Francis Burdett) in which you are to tear the leaves out of the accursed Red Book? Or are you at work putting new leaves in? Mr. Cobbett concluded with some ob

servations on the remarks of the member for Ireland, as he agaiin termed Mr. O'Connell, and of the member for Cambridgeshire, or for Cambridge University, not seeming to know the place for which Mr. Manners Sut ton sits, and adding that he protested against the appointment of the right hon. Gentleman as Speaker of the House of Commons, because such appointment would, in his opinion, be an open declaration of war against the purses of the people of England. Mr. Cobbett was listened to throughout his speech with attention and with silence, interrupted only occasionally by a laugh. After he resumed his place there were loud cries of "Divide !" and strangers had begun to withdraw, when

last Parliament on this subject may be rescinded at the earliest possible period of the ensuing session; so that the House may again have in its own hands that security for his good behaviour, which, however unnecessary in the present case, it was always desirable that the House should hold. The noble Lord (Morpeth) had said that cæteris paribus the House ought undoubtedly to elect that member for Speaker whose political opinions most nearly coincided with those of the majority of the House. Now from the experience which he (Mr. Warbur ton) had had of the right hon. Gentleman's conduct while formerly seated in that chair, he was ready and anxious to pay him those compliments which his great merit and unim peachel impartiality so eminently deserved. No person who had ever any dealings with him, either in his public or private capacity,

Mr. WARBURTON rose and observed, that he could not by any means assent to the opinion of some hon. Gentlemen who had spoken on this question, when they affirmed that the fit-would refuse to acknowledge thus much; but ness of the candidates to fill beneficially the on an occasion like the present, when the office for which they were to be appointed was question was about performing the first act in only a secondary consideration, and ought to a House of Commons from which the people weigh but little with the House, when put in expect so much-when the debate was about competition with weightier matters. At the performing an act, to which there is every prosame time he must agree with those hon. Gen-bability that the people are now directing their tlemen who had made political character the attention, as expecting to find in it the first most essential qualification-so far as to say, earnest of their success, or the first indication that when the pretensions of the candidates, of coming disappointments-on an occasion in point of fituess to fill the situation effi- like that, a man might be allowed to drop the ciently, were equal, the preference ought to be language of compliment, and unbosom himgiven by a reformed House of Commons to self freely and fully, and without regard to that candidate whose opinions agree most considerations of mere politeness. He would nearly with those of the majority of that therefore speak to one point, which, in his House. It was by no means of little import- mind, would go a great way to reduce the ance that the man who filled that chair should caudidates more nearly to a level in point of be such a mau as they might look up to with ability to perform the duty of the office in pride, and say, "Behold the man whom the question. He would therefore beg, as delicately people delighteth to honour!" He had risen as possible, but at the same time plainly, to to state a few points, which he observed had observe, that the due performance of his duties been either wholly omitted or but partially required physical as well as mental qualificanoticed by the preceding speakers. On notions. On many occasions during the last former occasion had a pension been granted to a retiring Speaker until that Speaker had actually ceased to fill the chair. That in this case could not possibly have taken place with the Right Hon. Charles Manners Sutton, for he continued Speaker until Parliament was dissolved. It was wrong to imagine that a prorogation put an end to his official charac

ter.

Parliament he had observed with pain the extreme ill health (disapprobation) under which the Speaker was labouring while seated in the chair; and he would therefore now call the attention of the noble Lord (Morpeth) who proposed, and of the hon. Baronet (Sir Francis Burdett) who secouded the nomination, to this subject. For his own part, he (Mr. Warbur ton) could not help entertaining doubts as to his (Mr. Charles M. Sutton's) ability to go through the arduous duties which must devolve upon a Speaker of a reformed House of Commons. At all times as difficult as they are

There was no former instance of a Speaker who had received a pension before his retirement. He was satisfied, however, by the whole conduct of the hon. Gentleman, that he would never allow his political opinious to bias, in the slightest degree, his con-important, the duties of the man who shall duct as Chairman of the House of Commons; next fill that chair will be infinitely more diffibut the precedent was decidedly bad, as far as cult and infinitely more important than at any regarded the voting of a pension to him be- time heretofore. In balancing, therefore, the fore his retirement, as it took away one of merits of the two Gentlemen who had been put the guarantees which the House possessed for in nomination (his opiniou might be thought his good conduct in the chair; and if the an odd one; but in so important a matter, as right hon. Gentleman should (as he believed he had before said, it was desirable that hon. he would) be again re-elected their Speaker, Members should unbosom themselves with the least that could be expected from Govern- perfect candour); in balancing the qualificament was, that either they themselves ortions of the Members proposed, he considered some of their supporters in that House should that the physical requisites of both candidates make a motion, in order that the vote of the should be taken into account; and in that

case he certainly thought that the vigorous | pertance—he meant the strictest impartiality; frame (a laugh) of the hon. Member for Staffordshire afforded more promise of continued efficiency than the ill health under which he was sorry to observe that the Hon. Charles Manners Sutton had laboured during the last session. He should now sit down; but he would observe, in conclusion, that if no mem-impartiality, in filling an office like that in ber should be found on an early occasion to propose that the vote of the last Parliament should be rescinded, he would himself propose a motion, that all that part of the vote of the House of Commons by which a retired pension of 4,000l. for his own life and of 3,000l. for his son should be conferred on the Right Hop. Charles Manners Sutton, shall be repealed.

and to that he would appeal again to the House whether he might not justly lay claim, This was, indeed, no merit to lay claim to. It was only claiming the character of an honest man; for it was very difficult to draw a distinction between honesty and the strictest question. Surely it could not now be supposed that he would suffer a political bias to sway his judicial decisions. For sixteen years had he performed the duties of Speaker of the House of Commons; for sixteen years was it admitted that he had suffered no political feeling to outweigh his sense of duty; for sixteen years he had taken care not to allow his perceptions to be dimmed by prejudices; and was it credible that he would be so blinded now, as to suffer them to draw their mist over his eyes? Should the House withdraw its confidence from him now, he would at least have this consolation-that the six successive Parliaments in which he had sat as Speaker of the House of Commons, would be sufficient to do him justice. If it should be the pleasure of the House of Commons to elect the hon. Member for Staffordshire, whatever assistance in the discharge of his duty sixteen years' experience would enable him (Mr. M. Sutton) to render him, should most cheerfully be given to him, or to any other member of the House who might be appointed. In conclusion, he would say, that, notwithstanding his sense of his own imperfectious, and of the difficulties of the task which he would have to undertake, if it should be the pleasure of the House to re-appoint him, he would exert himself to the utmost, as he had done before, to discharge his duty to the House, to the country, and he would say, to himself also, as an honest

Mr. CHARLES MANNERS SUTTON rose amid some confusion in the House, and some cries of "Divide" previously to his rising being generally observed. He spoke for a considerable time in a tone so extremely low, that he was totally inaudible in the gallery for a great portion of the commencement of bis speech. We understood him to express the feelings of embarrassment under which he rose on the occasion, and his gratitude for the kind opinions which had from all parts of the House been given of his exertions to perform the very arduous and most important duties of that office in the House of Commons which he had filled for sixteen years. Whatever sentiments he had heard expressed with respect to his fitness, in other particulars he heard no opinion mentioned on any hand unfavourable to his impartiality; and whatever other claims his friends might flatter them-| selves that he possessed to the high honour of presiding in the House of Commons, to this, at least, he would lay claim-he would take credit to himself for the strictest impar-man. tiality in his decisions. On this, as on every occasion, he felt it to be his duty to submit implicitly to the decision of the House. No man could more deeply or more painfully feel than he the difficulty of duly performing the arduous duties which he was again willing to take upon himself if it should please the House to re-appoint him. He knew well, better than most men, the responsibility which that man must incur in all cases who consents to fill that chair. Proud and grateful as he was for the compliments which had been so liberally bestowed upon him from all quarters of the House, he could not be so far led away by them as to imagine that the House of Commons could not easily find among their members a better occupant of that distinguished seat. As to capacity and fitness, he would lay claim to but a very moderate. share; but he at least possessed long experience. He would again, however, obey the commands of the House, if it should be its pleasure again to impose them upon him. Among the qualifications which every mau ought to bring when he ventured to occupy the Speaker's chair, that which he had before mentioned was certainly of paramount im

During his speech, Mr. C. M. Sutton was seldom distinctly audible, and only detached portions of his sentences gave any idea of the purport of his discourse. After he sat down, there were loud cries of "Question," and "Strangers withdraw."

A Member, whose name we could not learn, observed, that he considered himself as standing there as the representative of the people of England, and on their part, he thought it his duty to call upon Ministers for some explanation respecting the intentions with regard to the continuance of the pension of 4,000l. to Mr. C. M. Sutton, in the event of his re-election. He thought it extremely desirable, indeed absolutely necessary, to have that ques tion answered before they should proceed to division. Admitting that the right hou. Gentleman is possessed of all the qualities which are requisite in the man who is to fill the chair, although he should be sorry to vote against him, he could not vote for his again obtaining an office by which he would receive 6,000l. a year in addition to the pension of 4,0001. before granted him. An opportunity of settling this point had already been afforded, and he was surprised that it had not been

more early taken advantage of. It would be more to the credit of the Government, of the House, and of the right hon. Gentleman himself; it would, above all, be more satisfactory to the people of England, if that explanation should be given before they came to a decision -if the question were at once answered, whether it is or not intended that the Right Hon. Charles Sutton, if re-appointed Speaker of the House of Commons, should hold or should not hold the pension of 4,0007. in addition to his salary as Speaker?

motion, would decide its own character with the people. He must, therefore, oppose the motion.

Mr. FAITHFUL said, that he came down to the House prepared to support the proposition for appointing the right hon. Gentleman Speaker of that House; but what he had since heard, restrained him from immediately giving his countenance to that appointment. It was undoubtedly true that the right hon. Gentleman had himself stated, that if he were re-elected, he had no intention of availing Mr. C. M SUTTON said he would answer the himself of the act, by which a pension had question of the honourable Member in one been granted to him. But it must strike every short sentence. He conceived that according one, that a question of this great importance to the law of England, and according to the ought to be determined upon grounds ab intention of the legislature in the Act of Par-stracted from individual considerations; and liament in question, the person holding the ought not to be left to the decision of the office of Speaker of the House of Commons acceptance or non-acceptance of any single could not receive one shilling of the pension person. He begged, therefore, to ask any of spoken of so often. That, he added, was his Majesty's Ministers who were present, his firm belief with respect to the law on this whether, in the event of Mr. Manners Sutton point, and that was his conviction with re- being re-elected to the chair of that House, spect to the intention of the legislature; but they were prepared, immediately after his rewhatever might actually be the law, or what-election, to bring in a bill for the express ever the intention of the legislature might be supposed to be, it was his firm determination if re-elected to the chair, not to receive one shilling of the pension while he continued in the office. (Cheers).

purpose of repealing the existing act, by which a pension was conferred on the right hon. Gentleman. If his Majesty's Ministers would Bot pledge themselves to the production of such a bill, he should not feel justified in the Major BEAUCLERK (as we understood), discharge of his parliamentary duty, in relyafter apologising as a new member, was pro-ing on the mere assurance of an individual. ceeding to address the House, and to propose a resolution for reducing the salary of the Speaker from 6,000l. to 4,000l. a year, but sat down on being informed that it was not then the time for discussing such a resolution. The gallery was then cleared for a division, when there appeared.

For Mr. M. C. Sutton.
For Mr. Littleton

Majority

241
31
-210

On our return to the gallery, the question having, we presume, in the mean time been put, that the Right Honourable Charles Manners Sutton be appointed Speaker of that House, we found

Sir FRANCIS BURDETT repeated his firm conviction, that there was no man, without exception, in that House, who could be put in competition with the right hon. Gentleman now proposed to fill the chair, in all those qualities which were so necessary to the discharge of the high and important duties attached to the office. To those honourable members who had objected on the ground of the retiring pension which had been conferred upon the right hon. Gentleman, Ministers and explained the opinion which they entertained of the act of Parliament in question. But the opposition which was made to the re-appointment of Mr. Manners Sutton by those who Mr. COBBETT on his legs, but the noise oc- were the advocates of public economy, was the casioned by the rush of strangers was such, most extraordinary, and exhibited the strangest that for some time we were unable to collect view of the case conceivable: for how was it any of the hon. Member's remarks. When possible that any saving could be effected for we did, he was commenting on the enormous the public, unless by the re-appointment of salary, and the other great pecuniary advau- the right hon. Gentleman? The argument of tages enjoyed by the Speaker of the House of economy, therefore, which in such an importCommons; and asking why an individual ant case, however, was only of a straw's who was willing to take so large a sum from weight, was directly opposed to the opinion the people, should be the person selected to of the economists; as the only means of makpreside over the deliberatious of the represen- ing a public saving, was to re-appoint Mr. tatives of the people. It was a saying of Manners Sutton to the chair. If the act by farmers," as is the sample, such is the sack." which the pension had been conferred on that What sack could be expected, if such a sam-right hon. Gentleman was as binding as it had ple as this of dealing with the pockets of the people were tolerated by those who ought to be the representatives of that people? If Mr. Manners Sutton were rechosen to fill the chair of that House, he would be considered by the country as a sample of the House itself. The House, therefore, by its own vote on this

been alleged to be by the hon. Member for Oldham, and other honourable members, undoubtedly it could not be repealed without the right hon. Gentleman's consent. But that consent he had understood the right hon. Gentleman was disposed to give. Let it be recollected that the pension had been already