who sat on this side of the House-he must qualified to sit as Speaker of the House of confess that he did not receive so much sup- Commons. There was a considerable degree port from that right hon. Gentleman as he of firmness and equality in both the gentlethought himself entitled to. His explanations men; and the true question, therefore, was, were cut short-but he must forget it all in whether they were to have for the Speaker of the subsequent treatment which he expe- the House of Commons a Tory or a Reformer? rienced. The useful information and assist- (Cheers). He had considered that the grand ance which he was at all times ready to give advantage of the Reform Bill was to put him in the discharge of his parliamentary down Toryism in England-that vile and conduct, more than compensated for any abominable system which existed by the grievance such as that to which he had al-plunder of the people, aud by the usurpation luded. He agreed with the hon. Baronet, and of their rights. No family had enjoyed the with the noble Lord, in their remarks on the fruits of that system more than the family of personal qualities of the right hon. Gentle- the right hon. Gentleman. They had posman; and for the Speaker of an unreformed sessed several rotten boroughs-they had nuHouse of Commons, he thought no man could merous nominees in the House-and he should be more fit. He was an accomplished, intel- like to know of what use the Reform Bill ligent gentleman, who had great-almost mi- would be, if Tories and Tory connexions were raculous facility in expressing the sentiments still to be predominant; and if the principles of that House on every occasion, however ar which directed old Parliaments were still to duous, and who was perfectly ready to meet guide the councils of the new. If, indeed, any demands that might be made upon him. the right hon. Gentleman had reformed him. But the credit of his Majesty's Ministers was self-if, like many Tories, who, at the late at stake in this matter. The public were election, had their reforming principles for much disappointed when it found them seek- the first time awakened on coming before a ing every opportunity of thrusting their poli- real constituency-if he had found out that tical enemies into places and offices of great he had been a dormant reformer all his lifepower and importance. They should stand time-then his objections would all be at an by their friends, and leave their enemies to end. His opposition was not personal, but to shift for themselves. (A laugh). It was ouce the right hon. Gentleman's principles; the said of one of our monarchs, that he treated effect of his return under such circumstances enemies like friends, and his friends like ene- being to make Toryism triumphant. What mies. It appeared as though the present Mi. large sums of money had not his family renisters were following this excellent example.ceived for the performance of very small serHowever they should have future opportuni- vices! In speaking of small services he, of ties of talking on that subject at greater course, did not allude to the right hoo. Genlength: for he doubted not from the disposi- tleman himself. He had rendered actual tion they had already evinced, that his Ma-services-his duties were of the most arduous jesty's Government would give abundant cause nature he worked harder thau an unfortu for similar censure. He put the question en- nate labourer, or even a child in a cotton factirely on the Toryism of the right hon. Gentle-tory. No man could come down to that man, and he would say, that if it was con- House more honestly and fairly, or animated tended on the one side that the fitness of the by a purer spirit to perform the duties of his right hon. Gentlemau had been admitted, even office more fully and fairly than the right by his Friend the member for Middlesex, on hon. Gentleman. But he referred to bis fathe other hand no one had ventured to utter mily as one, thau which none had received one word impugning the extreme fitness of more of the public money for less service. the hon. Member for Staffordshire. (Hear). There was one individual of that family who He would defy any one to state a single ground had occupied a high office in his country for of objection to that gentleman's qualifications. twenty years, to the utter dissatisfaction of He was possessed of great parliamentary ex- every human being in that country, and for perience, and was well acquainted with all the which he had received 250,000. That indiroutine of private business. Touching the vidual, by force of his connexions, was raised orders and proceedings of that House he was to the office of solicitor-general; but so defifull of knowledge, which he was capable of cieut was he in talent, that, notwithstanding communicating with a readiness, clearness, the great power of his family, they could not and ability, which he exhibited on all occa-raise him to a higher office than that which sions. (Hear). He also possessed one eminent quality that of candour. He had known him entertain one opinion on entering the House, but his good sense had subsequently induced him to yield conviction to the arguments of those who had viewed the question in a different light. Thus he was convinced that he had one quality of great minds-that of perfect candour, in addition to the other high qualities of which he was possessed. No man existed who was in all respects more

was generally cousidered a retreat for incapables-of puisne baron of the Exchequer. Bad as he was, however, he was thought good enough to be made Lord Chancellor of Ireland, and so he continued for 20 years. It was stated that 50 per cent. of his decrees had been reversed; he was aware that the amount had been denied, but such was the fact. This was the system which he wanted to put down, and the reformed Parliament would be good for nothing if it did not put it down. Were

they still to continue in the ancient state of people he required it at their hands. But redrudgery-were the Ministry to nominate the verting to the question of economy—the right Speaker-arrange who would second and hon. Gentleman's pension had, according to then shout down all who presumed to oppose the Act of Parliament, already commenced, them? If there was no other objection than and he was entitled to have received two quarthat this was a ministerial arrangement, that ters-one on the 1. of October, and the other circumstance would have great weight in his on the 5. of January. It had commenced, mind. (A laugh). He was glad to hear the therefore; and having once commenced, the Treasury laugh. It sounded in the same Act of Parliament was express, that it must tone as the laugh which used to proceed from continue during the term of his natural life, the Treasury benches of au unreformed Par- There was a proviso, in the 8th section, that liament, when any man then dared to assail one-half of the pension was to be forfeited if the then lords of the ascendant, and venture the right hon. Gentleman accepted any office an opposition to their high behests. Their under the crown. The appointment of Speaker object, however, was to dethrone these lords, of that House, was, however, not an office and make them simple members of the House, under the crown; for the acceptance of any counting man for man with the rest of its such office as was well known, invariably cost members. (A laugh, and hear, hear, from the a member his seat. Probably Ministers might opposition benches). How far the placing of a believe-indeed he himself believed that the gentleman of Tory principles in that chair right hon. Gentleman himself would be inwas likely to satisfy the public, might easily clined to make sacrifices. Still, as the laws be anticipated. The people had been strug-stood at present, the re-election of the right gling almost to rebellion and revolution to get hon. Gentleman would not save the country rid of the Tory faction, and now the reformed one farthing of his pension; and, therefore, House of Commons was about to take it up. his supporters had no right to twit the MemThe Ministry-the Reforming Ministry-had ber for Middlesex, or those who took part with made the regular arrangement. They were, him, with any want of economy. The quesof course. afraid that the right hon. Gentle- tion, therefore, stood before them, purely on man would be proposed by the Tories. They the merits of the respective candidates. He sent the offer of the situation, which, of course, objected to the right hon. Gentleman, as, from was quite unexpected, and which, when offer- his sentiments, unfit to be Speaker of a reed, was politely accepted. And then they formed House of Parliament. The hon. Memwent out of their way not to promote a friend ber for Staffordshire yielded nothing to him in but a political enemy. They were sure to get point of talent. In his judgment, indeedthe votes of the Conservatives on the occasion perhaps it might he impugned-the hon. to swell their numbers, and the newspapers of Member for Staffordshire seemed to display a to-morrow would blazon forth the grand mi- greater degree of intellect, and to possess a nisterial majority. The strength of the Mi-higher order of mind,than the right hon. Gennisters would be promulgated on the Stock tleman, whilst his principles were most un-, Exchange, and the Jews would rejoice in an-doubted. The hon. Member for Yorkshire ticipation of a rise of two or three per cent. boasted-perhaps a little vanity of that kind (A laugh). Miuisters might felicitate them- was pardonable-of the number of his constiselves on their successfully dictating to the tuents. He was not certain that he was quite House; they might flatter themselves on such accurate, but it was probable that he reprea mode of gaining a majority, but he should sented the feelings of as large a portion of the not be doing his duty, did he not protest population of this empire as the noble Lord against it in limine. With regard to the himself, and in their name he protested laugh which had been raised against his hon. against this step, as an abandonment of refriend, when he deprecated the introduction of forming principles, as a relapse into Toryism, economy into this discussion, as if he were de-as a following up of one of the worst practices serting his principles, he begged it to be of the unreformed Parliament-that of the remembered that the laugh proceeded - Ministerial party making their own arrangefrom whom? Why, from the Treasury benches-from the very men who proposed to grant the pensiou of 4,000l. per anuum for the life of the right hon. Gentleman, with a reversion of 3,000l. per annum. That grant was an enormous abuse of the public money; and he hoped the time would shortly come, when a parliamentary inquiry should be instituted into the right of an unreformed House of Commons to vote away the money of the people to members of the House itself; and that it should also be inquired into what sums of the people's money the great oligarchical families had been suffered to put into their pockets. The public demanded this of the reformed Parliament; and in the name of the

ment-and then voting down the people by the aid of a conservative majority. (Hear). He would venture to prophesy that was not the last time they would see that combination.

Coming events cast their shadows before." Reports had long been going about, that a junction was to be formed to put a stop to the progress of reform, and to the amelioration of our institutions. Amelioratiou, did he say? he begged pardon, The right hon. Member for Lancashire had declared the reform measure to be final; and the right hon. Member for Northamptonshire had also pronounced a similar decree. (Lord Althorp denied this). He begged pardon, he only spoke from the statements which he read in the newspapers.

He was there represented as upholding the finality of the Reform Bill, and in order to facilitate that event the principle of Toryism was to be consecrated, by placing a Tory in the chair of that House.

tain opinions harmonizing with the sentiments. of the House itself. As yet they knew not what those sentiments were. He had many opportunities of communicating with the people of England, and he believed himself to be acquainted with their wants and wishes, and should be most desirous of seeing in that chair some gentleman whose sentiments

Lord EBRINGTON could not but express his deep regret at the personal reflections in which the hon. Member for Dublin had thought proper to indulge, upon the family and con-would harmonize with theirs. He wished to nexions of the right hon. Gentleman; and he know why that opportunity had not been must say, that whatever might have been the afforded them? He wished to know whether conduct of the persons alluded to, it could not there was any truth in the rumours which be said to form any disqualification of the right were abroad, and which had been alluded to hon. Gentleman himself. (Cheers). He had by the hon. member for Dublin? (Hear, bear). been a member of the House of Commons He should like to know whether the Ministers during the whole period of the right hon. of the Crown had presumed to negotiate with Geutleman's presidings over them; and he any one as to the individual who was to preregretted that he was old enough to add, for side over that free Parliament. (Cheers from some years before that period; consequently, the opposition). He could not believe it poshe had frequent opportunities of comparing sible; but he must require from them a full his conduct with that of those who preceded disavowal, or he should feel himself called him in that chair; and he could not refrain upon to withdraw from them that general supfrom expressing his cordial concurrence with port which it was his intention to have given everything which had fallen from the noble them. (Hear). He knew no offence better Lord, and from the hon. Baronet, with respect deserving impeachment than an interference to his great qualifications and attainments. on the part of the servants of the King with (Hear). He could bear testimony not only to the party to preside over the deliberations of the ability which that right hon. Gentleman at that House. As to the person to be appointed, all times exhibited, but also to his candour, he knew no man better qualified than the politeness, and courtesy, which had secured right hon. Gentleman who sat below him, aud to him on this occasion the respect even of who had filled the chair of that House for so those who were his political enemies, and dis- many years. At the same time he should armed all those who felt inclined to oppose like to hear from some member of the Cabinet him. He would, therefore, impress upon them a complete disavowal of those negotiations the propriety of choosing for a Speaker, one which had heen attributed to his Majesty's whose merits were so fully appreciated by Government. The office of Speaker was a those who were the most competent judges. different situation to what it had hitherto He hoped that the right hon. Gentleman would been. It was a higher dignity; and the realso fully appreciate the honour conferred election to that office of the right hon. Geutle➡ upon him, of being chosen to preside over that man must be one of the most gratifying reassembly of the real representatives of the wards for his long and laborious life. It people (hear, hear); and he had no doubt that struck him (Mr. Tennyson) with great surhis conduct in that situation would reflect as prise, that the right hon. Gentleman should much honour to himself, as it would do credit have again appeared in that House; but to the choice of a House very differently con- having appeared in that House, he found himstituted from those over which he had been self in a situation of immense embarrassment. accustomed to preside. He could not sit downHe knew not how to say that he had any want without, however, bearing testimony to the of confidence in the right hon. Gentleman, for great merits of his hon. Friend (the Member for Staffordshire), and complimenting him upon his very handsome conduct upon the present occasion. (Cheers). Highly as he before esteemed his hon. Friend, and much as be respected his public character, he had risen yet higher in his estimation; and he doubted not, also in in the good opinion of the House. (Hear, hear).

he had the greatest. He believed that he would perform the duties of his high office with the greatest ability and impartiality. At the same time, he would rather have seen that chair occupied by a Speaker who represented more adequately the feelings of the people. (Hear). His hon. Friend, the member for Staffordshire, would forgive him for saying, that he was placed in a situation of Mr. TENNYSON said he could not support still greater difficulty on this occasion, on the motion of his hon. Friend the member for account of the proposition of that honourable Middlesex, and he was anxious to state to the Gentleman, because he believed that hone House the reasons on which he came to a Gentleman did not represent the opinions of different conclusion. He entirely agreed with the people, of England. (A laugh). The hon. his hon. Friend that it was most desirable to member for Middlesex desired to have a have in a reformed House of Commons a Speaker favourable to those great measures Speaker whose sentiments in a great degree of improvement which he contemplated; and accorded with the opinions of the people. the hon. member for Dublin-one who conBut his hon. Friend had also said that the sidered the Reform Bill not a final measure. Speaker of the reformed House should enter- But from what he knew of the feelings of the

people, and did not think the hon. Member my support. (Hear, hear). I certainly did for Staffordshire would vote on those great so. The honourable and learned Member for measures in a manner which they would con- Dublin, seems to think this dictating to the sider necessary to the efficiency of the Reform House. If we are now to talk of Ministers of Bill. It was, therefore, not difficult to choose the Crown dictating to a British House of between the two individuals. He bore testi-Commons, I can only say, that we have wasted mony to the personal courtesy which he had two years in talking about reform. (Loud received from the late Speaker, especially on Cheers). I hope and trust the measures which one particular occasion, when he was opposed his Majesty's Ministers will bring forward to him on a point of order. He had the most may be such as to meet the approbation of the unlimited confidence in the right hon. Gentle-House and of the people. It is my intention that man, and he should give him his vote. At they should do so; and there is one sentiment the same time he could not but regret that in the speech of my honourable Friend the his Majesty's Government had not taken that member for Middlesex, in which I concur course which would have enabled the House most completely; namely, that the Reform to come to some other conclusion. (Loud Bill was the meaus and not the end. (Hear, cries for Lord Althorp). hear). I have been taunted with having spoken of the Reform Bill as a final measure. I asked him what he meant by a final measure? Do I mean to say, because I used those words, that the reform of Parliament itself is finalthat no other reform was to be introduced, and that no advantages whatever were to accrue from it? Certainly not. I considered it final, and I supported it as final as far as regarded the constitution of the House itself, and as a means by which to effect other improvements and other reforms. The hon. Member seems to think, because I made use of the word final, that I am opposed to those very reforms of which I consider the Reform Bill only the foundation. In this respect, therefore, I can only say, my language has been misinterpreted. (Hear, hear). I have laid the circumstances connected with the nature of my vote this day before the House; and I trust that it will consider that I have not done anything disrespectful or contrary to my duty. (Hear). The right hon. Gentleman's great experience is such, that no other Gentleman can be put in comparison with him. No objection has been raised against him, except that he differs in politics with the majority of the House; and it is put by my hon. friend, the Member for Middlesex, as if this was the first instance of a Speaker having been selected who differed in opinion from that majority. Why, in the very last Parliament, the right hon. Gentleman differed as completely from the majority as in the present. No man, referring to his experience in that Parliament, can say that he suffered any inconvenience in consequence. I am sure the conduct of the right hon. Gentleman was perfectly impartial, and the cause we were then advocating met with not the slightest interruption. (Hear, hear). I confess I see no difficulty in the choice. As I said before, if the qualifications of both candidates were equal, that might be a reason for preferring the candidate whose opinions more nearly coincided with my own. On the score of economy, I entirely agree with the hon. Member for Middlesex, that this question is one of too much importance to allow any such consideration as that of economy to have any influence. (Hear). I cannot, however, admit the position which has been taken, that no

Lord ALTHORP-I rise in consequence of the call which has been made upon me by my honourable Friend, and of the charge which has been made against his Majesty's Government. I shall, therefore, briefly state the reasons which induce me to give my vote as I shall do on the present occasion. My hon. Friend, and also the hon. Member for Dublin, imputed to the King's Government the exercise of undue influence in the election of a Speaker. As far as my own knowledge is concerned, no influence has been used at all. (Cheers). With respect to the case, it is simply this I am perfectly ready to admit and I agree with those gentlemen who say, that if they found two gentlemen of equal ability proposed as Speaker-with one of whom I agreed in opinion generally, and from the other of whom I differed-I should most as suredly give the preference to the former. But when I found that the right honourable Gentleman had again been returned as a member of the present Parliament, I really am quite astonished that every Gentleman does not feel as I did, the great advantages which must result from our possessing the benefit of his experience; and knowing, as we do, how he has performed the duties of Speaker, I think we cannot but admit that his qualifications are pre-eminent, and that he is infinitely better fitted for that high situation than any other member of the House can possibly be. (Hear). I am perfectly ready to say that looking at my honourable Friend the member for Staffordshire as an untried man, I have every reason to believe that he is perfectly qualified. But it is impossible to put in competition with a person of whose excellent conduct we have had such ample experience, one of whom we have had no experience at all; and I should have been guilty of the greatest dereliction of my duty if I had allow ed any private consideration to influence my mind, and induce me to give my vote to any Gentleman who was not possessed of the same experience. Certainly, therefore, I avow to my honourable Friend, that I did write to the right honourable Gentleman, to know if he were elected Speaker, whether he would undertake the office; telling him that, if he would undertake to do so, he should have

saving will be effected; and I must say has not only an ample salary, but he has a (though, perhaps, it is presumptuous in me to house besides, as well as allowances for do so), that I differ with the honourable and clerks, and numerous other perquisites. Can learned Member for Dublin in the interpreta- any one say under these circumstances, that tion of the Act of Parliament. The Act says, his services are not amply paid by the salary that the pension is not to commence till after which he receives while he holds the office? the right hon. Gentleman ceases to be Speaker Is there any man who thinks that a salary -it does not point out the period of resigna- equal to that which the United States consider tion as that of the commencement of the sufficient for their President, is not sufficient pension; I therefore think that under the for the President of the House of Commons? Act, the right to the pension will not accrue The right hon. Gentleman has been for sixs so long as the right hon. Gentleman shall teen years in the office of Speaker: he has continue to be our Speaker. The right hon.received every year a salary of 6,0007.; he has Gentleman himself takes the same view of the thus taken from the burdened people of Engcase. The mistake seems to arise from con-land, Scotland, and Ireland sixteen times sidering that the right hon Gentleman ceased 6,0007.; he has had besides very considerable to be Speaker on the prorogation of Parlia- emoluments over and above all this. Has a ment, whereas it was not till the dissolution; House, calling itself the representative of the and upon his being restored to the chair, people of England, Scotland, and Ireland, all claim to the pension is suspended. (Hear). any right to saddle this country with a salary Mr. COBBETT then rose, and spoke, in effect, superior to that of the President of the United as follows:-It appears to me that since 1 States-a salary greater thau the income of have been sitting here I have heard a great the chief magistrate of a nation containing deal of unprofitable discussion. It seems to ten millions of people? Yet it is a fact that be thought that this is a mere question as to the the President of the United States has no greater or less fitness of the one Member or greater salary than that of the late Speaker of the other to fill the office of Speaker of this the House of Commons. It is my opinion, House; but, in my opinion, there is another that if these things were well sifted (and Í point which iu a still greater degree requires hope we shall take care that they be well our most serious consideration: I mean how sifted shortly)-it is my opinion that this the people will think on the subject, what House alone, with its attendauts, officers, regard they will consider has been paid to door-keepers, and so forth, costs this country them in our choice, and what opinion they more than the whole of the civil and political will form of us from our first act-the appoint- government of the United States of North ment of a Speaker. It has been much the America, even including its ten able ambasfashion to talk of the fitness of the Member sadors to the different courts of Europe. Let proposed in other respects-of his experience, me call the attention of the House to the of his diligence, and the like; but in this case newness of the position in which they are at we ought to look among ourselves for one this moment placed, and to the effect which who may deserve to be considered by the will probably be produced on the public mind, people as an epitome of us. When we put a should their first act go to throw an additionał Speaker once in that chair, we tell the people, burden on the country. We may well believe in effect, to look on that man as the chief of that the opinion of the country will not be us; he ought to be the best of us all; he will very favourable to us, if such should be the be considered the man whom we have osen case, when we take into consideration what as the ablest and wisest among us- (a laugh) the people have said on the subject of pen-the most public spirited; and, in short, as sions in every one of their petitions on the I said before, the epitome of the House. In subject of reform; and it will not be very making our choice, we say to the people of gracious to set out, in the face of the Englaud, Look upon this man as our repre- people's reiterated prayers, by saddling the sentative, as we are representatives of you country with one pension more. The hon. With respect to the Act of Parliament (but I Baronet (Sir Francis Burdett) who has sesuppose I must not say a single word about conded the nomination of the right hon. law) with regard to the Act of Parliament Charles Manners Sutton for Speaker, knows which granted a pension to the right hon. very well the nature of the petitions on the Charles Manners Sutton, I must say I think subject of Reform, for he had to do with a the noble Lord (Althorp) is completely mis- great many of them. I can safely declare, taken, and that the right hon. Gentleman is that in all my life, ever since I began to pay undoubtedly entitled by law, if re elected attention, in any considerable degree, to Speaker, to continue to draw his pension as political matters of the kind (and that is a well as his salary. Now I will ask, is there good while ago), I can safely say that I any lawyer here, any merchant, or any lite-do not remember one single petition, from rary man, that hears me, who does not know that if a quarter of his time was spent in the business which devolves upon the chairman of this House, that business would not only be done effectually, but it would be done much better than it ever was yet? Now the Speaker

first to last, on the subject of Parliamentary Reform, to which a petition for the abolition of pensions was not appended. I defy any Member to produce one petition in which this was not the case; one petition, I say, on the subject of parliamentary reform in