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He was there represented as upholding the stain opinions harmonizing with the sentimente.
finality of the Reform Bill, and in order to of the House itself. As yet they knew not facilitate that event the principle of Toryism what those sentiments were. He had many was to be consecrated, by placing a Tory in opportunities of communicating with the the chair of that House.
people of England, and he believed himself Lord EBRINGTON could not but express his to be acquainted with their wants and wishes, deep regret at the personal reflections in which and should be most desirous of seeing in that the hon. Member for Dublin had thought chair some gentleman whose seutiments proper to indulge, upon the family and con- would harmonize with theirs. He wished to pexions of the right hon. Gentleman ; and he know why that opportunity had not been must say, that whatever might have been the afforded them ? He wished to kuow whether conduct of the persons alluded to, it could not there was any truth in the rumours which be said to form any disqualification of the right were abroad, and which had been alluded to hon. Gentleman himself. (Cheers). He had by the hon. member for Dublin? (Hear, bear). been a member of the House of Commons He should like to know whether the Ministers during the whole period of the right hon. of the Crown had presumed to negotiate with Geutleman's presidings over them; and be any one as to the individual who was to pre. regretted that be was old enough to add, for side over that free Parliament. (Cheers from some years before that period ; consequently, the opposition). He could not believe it pos. he had frequent opportunities of comparing sible; but be must require from them a full his conduct with that of those who preceded disavowal, or he should feel himself called him in that chair; and he could not refrain upon to withdraw from them that general supfrom expressing bis cordial concurrence with port which it was his intention to have given everything which had fallen from the noble them. (Hear). He knew no offence better Lord, and from the hon. Baronet, with respect deserving impeachment than an interference to his great qualifications and attaioments. on the part of the servants of the King with (Hear). He could bear testimony not only to the party to preside over the deliberations of the ability wbich that right hon. Gentleman at that House. As to the person to be appointed, all times exhibited, but also to his candour, he knew' no man better qualified than the politeness, and courtesy, which had secured right hon. Gentleman who sat below him, aud to bim on this occasion the respect even of who had filled the chair of that House for so those who were his political enemies, and dis- many years. At tbe same time be should armed all those who felt inclined to oppose like to hear from some member of the Cabinet him. He would, therefore, impress upon them a complete disavowal of those negotiations the propriety of choosing for a Speaker, one which had been attributed to his Majesty's whose merits were so fully appreciated by Government. The office of Speaker was those who were the most competent judges. different situation to what it had hitherto He hoped that the right hon. Gentleman would been. It was a higher dignity; and the realso fully appreciate the honour conferred election to that office of the right hon. Geutleupon him, of being chosen to preside over that man must be one of the most gratifying reassembly of the real representatives of the wards for bis long and laburious life. It people (hear, bear); and he had no doubt that struck him (Mr. Tennyson) with great sur, his conduct in that situation would reflect as prise, that the right hon. Gentleman should much houour to himself, as it would do credit have again appeared in that House ; but to the choice of a House very differeotly con- having appeared in that House, he found bimstituted from those over which he had been self in a situation of immeuse embarrassment. accustomed to preside, He could not sit down He knew not how to say that he had any want without, however, bearing testimony to the of confidence in the right hon. Gentleman, for great merits of his bon. Friend (the Member he had the greatest. He believed that he for Staffordshire), and complimenting him would perform the duties of his bigh office upon his very handsome couduct upon the with the greatest ability and impartiality. present occasion. (Cheers). Highly as he At the same time, be would rather have seen before esteemed bis bon. Friend, and much as that chair occupied by a Speaker who reprebe respected his public character, he had risen sented more adequately the feelings of the yet higher in his estimation; and he doubted people. (Hear). His hon. Friend, the memnot, also in in the good opinion of the House. ber for Staffordshire, would forgive him for (Hear, hear).
saying, that he was placed in a situation of Mr. TENNYSON said he could not support still greater difficulty on this occasion, on the motiou of his hon. Friend the member for account of the proposition of that bouourable Middlesex, and he was anxious to state to the Gentleman, because he believed that bon. House the reasons un which he came to a Gentleman did not represent the opinions of different conclusion. He entirely agreed with the people of England. (A laugh). The hoa. his hon. Friend that it was most desirable to meinber for Middlesex desired to have have in a reformed House of Coinmons a Speaker savourable to those great measures Speaker whose sentiments in a great degree of improvement which he contemplated ; and accorded with the opinions of the people. the hon. member for Dublin-one who conBut his bon. Friend had also said that the sidered the Reform, Bill not a fioal measure. Speaker of the reformed House should enter. But from what he knew of the feelings of the
people, and did not think the bon. Member my support. (Hear, bear). I certainly did for Staffordshire would vote on those great so. The honourable and learned Member for measures in a mapoer which they would con- Dublin, seems to think this dictating to the sider necessary to the efficiency of the Reform House. If we are now to talk of Ministers of Biil. It was, therefore, not difficult to choose the Crown dictating to a British House of between the two individuals. He bore testi. Commons, I cau only say, that we have wasted mony to the personal courtesy which he had two years in talking about reform. (Loud received froin the late Speaker, especially on Cheers). I hope and trust the measures which one particular occasion, when he was opposed his Majesty's Ministers will bring forward to him on a point of order. He had the most may be such as to meet the approbation of the unlimited confidence io the right hon. Gentle House and of the people. It is my intention that man, and he should give him his vote. At they should do so; and there is one sentiment the same time he could not but regret that in the speech of my honourable Frieod the his Majesty's Government had not taken that member for Middlesex, in which I concur course which would have enabled the House most completely; namely, that the Reform to come to some other conclusion. (Loud Bill was the meads and not the end. (Hear, cries for Lord Altborp).
hear). I have been taunted with having Lord ALTHORP-I rise in consequence of spoken of the Reform Bill as a fioal measure. the call which has been made upon me by my I asked him wbat he meant by a final measure ? bonourable Friend, and of the charge which Do I mean to say, because I used those words, has been made against bis Majesty's Govern- that the reform of Parliameut itself is final ment. 1 shall, therefore, briefly state the that no other reform was to be introduced, reasons which induce me to give my vote as I and that no advantages wbatever were to sball do on the present occasion. My hoo. accrue from it ? Certainly not. I considered Friend, and also the hon. Member for Dublin, it fipal, and I supported it as fipal as far as imputed to the King's Government the exer- regarded the constitution of the House itself, cise of undue influence iu the election of and as a means by which to effect other ima Speaker. As far as my own knowledge is provements and other reforms. The hon. concerned, po influence has been used at all. Member seems to think, because I made use (Cheers). With respect to the case, it is of the word final, that I am opposed to those Simply tbis :-I am perfectly ready to admit very reforms of which I consider the Reform and I agree with those gentlemen who say, Bill only the foundation.
In this respect, that if they found two gentlemen of equal therefore, I can only say, my language has ability proposed as Speaker-with one of whom been misinterpreted. (Hear, bear). I have I agreed in opinion generally, and from the laid the circumstances connected with the other of whom I differed-I should most as. nature of my vote this day before the House; suredly give the preference to the former. and I trust that it will consider that I have But when I found that the right honourable not done anything disrespectful or contrary to Gentleman had again been returned as a my duty. (Hear). The right hon. Gentleman's member of the present Parliament, I really great experience is such, that no other Gen, am quite astonished that every Gentleman tleman can be put in comparison with him. does not feel as I did, the great advantages No objection has been raised against him, which must result from our possessiog the except that he differs in politics with the ma. benefit of his experience; and knowing, as jority of the House; and it is put by my hon, we do, how he bas performed the duties of friend, the Member for Middlesex, as if this Speaker, I think we cannot but admit that his was the first instance of a Speaker baving been qualifications are pre-eminent, and that he is selected who differed in opiuion from that infinitely better fitted for that high situation majority. Why, in the very last Parliament, thau any other member of the House can pos. the right hon. Gentleman differed as comsibly be. (Hear). I am perfectly ready to say pletely from the majority as in the present. that looking at my honourable Friend the No man, referring to his experience in that member for Staffordshire as an untried man, I Parliament, cau say that he suffered any have every reason to believe that he is per- iocoavenience in consequence. I am sure the fectly qualified. But it is impossible to put in conduct of the right bon. Gentleman was per, competition with a person of whose excellent fectly impartial, and the cause we were then conduct we bave had such ample experience, advocatiog met with uot the slightest intera one of whom we have had no experience at ruption. (Hear, hear). I confess I see no all; and I should have been guilty of the difficulty in the choice. As I said before, if greatest dereliction of my duty if I had allow the qualifications of both candidates were ed any private consideration to influence my equal, that might be a reason for preferring mind, and induce me to give my vote to avy the candidate whose opinions more yearly Gentleman who was not possessed of the coincided with my own. On the score of same experience. Certainly, therefore, 1 economy, I entirely agree with the hon. Mema avow to my honourable Friend, that I did ber for Middlesex, that this question is one of write to the right honourable Gentleman, to too much importance to allow any such conknow if he were elected Speaker, whether he sideration as tbat of economy to have any would undertake the office; telling him that, infuence. (Hear). I caudot, however, admit if he would undertake to do so, he should have the position which has been taken, that no
saving will be effected; and I must say has not only an ample salary, but he has á (though, perhaps, it is presumptuous in met house besides, as well as allowances for do so), that I differ with the honourable and clerks, and dumerous other perquisites. Can learned Member for Dublin in the interpreta- any one say uuder these circumstances, that tion of the Act of Parliameat. The Act says, his services are uot amply paid by the salary that the pensiod is not to commence till after which he receives while he holds the office? the right hon. Gentleman ceases to be Speaker Is there any man who tbiuks that a salary - it does not point out the period of resigna. equal to that which the United States consider tion as that of the commeucement of the sufficient for their President, is not sufficient pension; I therefore think that under the for the President of the House of Commons? Act, the right to the pension will not accrue The right hon. Gentleman has been for sixs so long as the right hon. Gentleman shall teen years in the office of Speaker: he has contivue to be our Speaker. The right hon. received every year a salary of 6,0001. ; he has Gentleman himself takes the same view of the thus taken from the burdened people of Eng
The mistake seems to arise from con- land, Scotland, and Ireland sixteen times sidering that the right hon Gentleman ceased 6,0001.; he has had besides very considerable to be Speaker ou the prorogation of Parlia- emoluments over and above all this. Has a ment, whereas it was not till the dissolution ; House, calling itself the representative of the and upon his being restored to the chair, people of England, Scotland, and Ireland, all claim to the pension is suspended. (Hear). any right to saddle this country with a salary
Mr. COBBert then rose, and spoke, in effect, superior to that of the President of the United as follows :~ It appears to me that since i States-a salary greater thau the income of have been sitting here I have heard a great the chief magistrate of a nation containing deal of unprofitable discussion. It seems to ten millions of people ? Yet it is a fact that be thought that this is a mere question as to the the President of the United States has no greater or less fi'uess of the ove Member or greater salary than that of the late Speaker of the other to fill the office of Speaker of this the House of Commons. It is my opinion, House ; but, in my opinion, there is another that if these things were well sifted (and I poiut which iu a still greater degree requires hope we shall take care that they be well our most serious cousideration : I mean how sified shortly)—it is my opinion that this the people will thiuk on the subject, what House alone, with its attendauts, officers, regard they will consider has been paid to door.keepers, and so forth, costs this country them in our choice, and what opinion they more than the whole of the civil and political will form of us from our first act the appoint- government of the United States of North ment of a Speaker. It has been much the America, even including its ten able ambasfashivn to talk of the fitness of the Member sadors to the different courts of Europe. Let proposed in other respects-of his experience, me call the attention of the House to the of his diligence, and the like; but in this case newness of the position in which they are at we ought to look among ourselves for one this moment placed, and to the effect which who may deserve to be considered by the will probably be produced on the public mind, people as an epitome of us. When we put a should their first act go to throw an additionat Speaker once in that chair, we tell the people, burden vo the country. We may well-believe in effect, to look on that man as the chief of that the opinion of the country will not be us; he ought to be the best of us all, he will very favourable to us, if such should be the be considered the man whom we have wosen case, when we take into consideration wbat as the ablest and wisest among us-fa Jaugh) the people have said on the subject of per-the most public spirited ; and, in short, as sions in every one of their petitions on the I said before, the epitome of the House. In subject of reform; and it will not be very making our choice, we say to the people of gracious to set out, in the face of the Englaud, Look upon this man as our repre, people's reiterated prayers, by saddling the sentative, as we are representatives of you country with oue pension more. The hon. With respect to the Act of Parliament (but I Baronet (Sir Francis Burdett) who has sesuppose I must not say a single word about cooded the nomination of the right bon. law)--with regard to the Act of Parliament Charles Manners Sutton for Speaker, knows which granted a pension to the right hun. very well the pature of the petitions on the Charles Manners Sutton, I must say I think subject of Reform, for he had to do with a the noble Lord (Althury) is completely mis- great many of them. I can safely declare, taken, and that the right hon. Gentleman is that in all my life, ever since I began to pay undoubtedly entitled by law, if re elected attention, in any considerable degree, to Speaker, to continue to draw his pension as political matters of the kind (and that is a well as his salary. Now I will ask, is there good while ago), I can safely say that I any lawyer here, any merchant, or any lite- do not remember one single petition, from rary mao, that hears me, who does not know first to last, on the subject of Parliamenthat if a quarter of his time was spent in the tary Reform, to which a petition for the business which devolves upon the chairmau abplition of pensions was not appeuded. I of this House, that business would not only be defy any Member to produce one petition in done effectually, but it would be done much which this was not the case ; one petition, I better than it ever was yet? Now the Speaker say, on the subject of parliamentary reform in
which the petitioners omitted a reform of ex- | the power of the King's servants, to cause the pense as the chief object of the prayed-for re- payment of this pension w cease. He spoke fura. I defy the noble Lord (Morpeth) to as if he conld drive a bargain with the right point out one such petition presented during hon. Gentleman, and make a contract with the last five-and-twenty years. When it was bim, that should be be re-elec.ed, his retired prayed that the abuses wbich had crept into pension should cease. The late Parliament íbe constitution should be removed, that bestowed 4,0001. a year on their Speaker at prayer was invariably coupled with ove for the his ret'rement from office, avd 3,0001. a year removal of those burdens wbich had been un- for his son, or any male beir (I suppose). It justly imposed on the people of this country- was an Act of Parliament that hestuwed these I mean every single pension wbich is outpensious, and nothing cap resciod it but anfully merited by well-knowo services to the other Act of Parliament; and, in my opinion, country. This is, in fact, what the peuple had the noble Lord is quite mistaken as to the uppermost in their wiods wheu they spoke ou meaning of that Act. I will ask ile hon. the subiect of reform. It would be ill an- Member for Ireland (I dou't reccllect the parswering their expectations, if a reformed ticular place just now that he is Member for, House were to commence iis labours by im- and I call him, thereffore, the Member for posing an additional burden. What! will a Ireland)-| ask, then, the hon. Member for reformed House of Commons continue to Ireland, who is a lawyer, whether there must make the poor man pay forty times as much not be another Act of Parliament belore the for articles of consumption as the rich man, in pension can be rescinded? It is not a bargain proportion to his means ? According 10 or contract, and nothing can take the pension Cocker (who has lately been set up as an ob- away but another Act of Parliament. How ject to appeal to), the poor man pays forty much honesty, inoderation, and merciful contimes as much in some cases as the rich map sideration of the people there was io a transacdoes. But not only does the right bon. Gen- tion by which he was rewarded for filling his tleman seek to take this pension of 4,0001. late situation for sixteen years, by losing bimself, hut to continue to his son too a pen- 6,0001, a year on his retirement, and receiving sion of 3,0001. for bis life also all for services 5,0001. instead, for doing nothing, I will not performed duriug sixteen years-for which now stop to consider. He has got his hand in services the father bad been fully and amply the people's pockets, and he will not soon renunerated. During these years the Right craw it out. The noble Lord thinks the penHon. Charles Mapvers Sutton received about sion will cease on his being re elected ; but, oee hundred thousand pounds for the per depeud upon it, it will not cease. What is formance of his duty as chairman of the the situarion, then, in which the House is now House of Commons; and now the country has placed with respect to this appointment? If to pay pepsions for two lives, which (reckun- the right hon. Charles Manners Sutton ing these lives to last a reasonable time) may should be re-elected, as apparently he will enable them (from father and son) to receive be (and I know nothing of the right ho200,0001. more. With their pockets already nourable Gentleman's qualifications, for ! crammed with the people's money, they must never saw bim iu his chair in my life, and pocket twice as much more. (Here Mr. Cubbet koow nothing at all about him but as a heavy excited the meriment of the House by address- pensioner)-if he be re-elected, the House ing a remark to Mr.Lee, whose official duties be- liells the people that their hopes will be dis. fore the choice of a Speaker render him for the appointed, because the people will judge of time a very important personage iu the House their future couduct from their appointment of Commons).' Is this the way in which the of a man who has driven such bargains with House is to show the people that they can de regard to the money of the people. Such an peod upon them? The thing now wanted is appointment shall not receive my assent; and a patient waiting on the part of the suffering there are, I have no doubt, a good ınany others and oppressed people. To have this parient who will not agree to it. Suppose the right waiting, we must have their confidence in us ; hon. Gentleman to be appointed Speaker of then they will be patient as children are with this House. If the House chose to do it, it their parents, because they are sure that they could not then undo it. The bou. Gentleman mean them well. But to have their cooli- might go immediately and sell bis pension, dence, are we about to tell the over-taxed which he may du if he chooses-he may go people, the people who are in a state of this afternoon and sell it as an annuity for his suffering (as will soon be shown by iny hon. life if he choose; to do so. Will the House Colleague) such as cannot be described-a consent to injustice so flagrant? Are we state that no one could believe unless he going to say to the uation, Look up to this saw it wbile the people are paying five inan, with his pockets crammed with the shillings per pound for that which they people's money, as the Speaker of the reought to have fur fifteen-preuce; were they formed House of Communs-as the first comabout to tell the people that no relief was to moner of England ? Is this the way (looking be expected from them, as they would in effect round at Sir Francis Burdett) in which you do, if the first act of that House were to be are to tear the leaves out of the accursed Red the placing of that man in the chair? The Book? Or are you at work putting new leaves poble Lord Althorp has talked as if it were in in? Mr. Cobbett concluded with some ob
servations on the remarks of the member for last Parliament on this subject may be reIreland, as he agaiin termed Mr. O'Connell, scinded at the earliest pussible period of the and of the member for Cambridgeshire, or ensuing session ; so that the House may again for Cambridge University, not seeming to bave in its own hands that security for bis good know the place for which Mr. Manners Sut- bebaviour, which, bowever unnecessary in the ton sits, and adding that he protested against present case, it was always desirable that the the appointment of the right hon. Gentleman House should bold. The noble Lord (Morpeth) as Speaker of the House of Commons, because I had said that cæteris paribus the House ougbt such appointmeut would, in his opinion, be undoubtedly to elect that member for Speaker an open declaration of war against the purses whose political opinions most nearly coincided of the people of England. Mr. Cohbeit was with those of the majority of the House, Now listened to throughout his speech with atteo- from the experience which he (Mr. Warburtion and with sileuce, interrupted only occa- ton) bad had of the right hon. Gentleman's sionally by a laugh. After he resumed his conduct while formerly seated in that chair, place there were loud cries of “ Divide !” and be was ready and anxious to pay bim those strangers had begun to withdraw, when compliments which his great merit and unim.
Mr. WARBURTON rose and observed, that he peached impartiality so eminently deserved. could not by any means assent to the opinion No person who had ever any dealings with of some hon. Gentlemen who had spoken un bim, either in his public or private capacity, this question, when they affirmed that the fit- would refuse to ackuowledge thus much; but ness of the candidates to fill heveficially the on an occasion like the present, when the office for which they were to be appointed was question was about performing the first act in only a secondary consideration, and ought to a House of Commons from which the people weigh but little with the House, when put in expect so much-when the debate was about competition with weightier matters. At the performing an act, to which there is every prosame time be must agree with those hon. Gen-bability that the people are now directing their tlemen who had made political character the attention, as expecting to find in it the first most essential qualification-so far as to say, earnest of their success, or the first indication that when the pretensions of the candidates, of coming disappointments-on an occasion in point of fituess to fill the situation effi- like that, a mau might be allowed to drop the ciently, were equal, the preference ought to be language of compliment, and uabosom himgiven by a reformed House of Commons to self freely and fully, and without regard to that candidate whose opinions agree most considerations of mere politeness. He would nearly with those of the majority of that therefore speak to one point, which, in his House. It was by no means of little importo mind, would go a great way to reduce the ance that the man who filled that chair should caudidates more nearly to a level in point of be such a mau as they might look up to with ability to perform the duty of the office in pride, and say, “ Behold the mąo whom the question. He would therefore beg, as delicately people delighteth to honour !" He bad risen as possible, but at the same time plainly, to to state a few points, which be observed had observe, that the due performance of his doties been either wholly omitted or but partially required physical as well as inental qualificauoticed by the preceding speakers. Oo no tions. On many occasions duriug the last former occasion had a pension been grapted 10 Parliament he had observed with pain the exa retiriøg Speaker until that Speaker bad ac- treme ill health (disapprobation) under which tually ceased to fill the 'chair. That in this the Speaker was labouring while seated in the case could not possibly have taken place with chair; and he would therefore now call the the Right Hon. Charles Maoners Sutton, for attention of the nuble Lord (Morpetb) who he continued Speaker until Parliament was proposed, and of the hon. Baronet (Sir Francis dissolved. It was wrong to imagine that a Burdett) who secouded the nomination, to this prorogation put an eud to his official charac- subject. For his own part, he (Mr. Warbur
There was no former instance of a ton) could not help entertaining doubts as to Speaker who had received a pension before his his (Mr. Charles M. Suttou's) ability to go retirement. He was satisfied, however, by through the arduous duties which must devolve the whole conduct of the hon. Gentleman, upon a Speaker of a reformed House of Comthat he would never allow bis political opi- mons. At all times as difficult as they are nious tu bias, in the slightest degree, his con- important, the duties of the man wbo'shall duct as Chairman of the House of Commons; next fill that chair will be infinitely more diffibut the precedent was decidedly bad, as far as cult and infinitely more important than at any regarded the voting of a pension to him be. time heretofore." In balaucing, therefore, the fore his retirement, as it took away one of merits of the two Gentlemen who had been put the guarantees which the House possessed for in nomination (his opiniou might be thought his good conduct in the chair; and if the an odd one ; but in so important a matter, as right hon. Gentleman should (as he believed he bad before said, it was desirable that bon. he would) be again re-elected their Speaker, Members should unbosom themselves with the least that could be expected from Govern perfect candour); in balancing the qualifica. ment was, that either they themselves or tions of the Members proposed, he considered some of their supporters in that House should that the physical requisites of both candidates make a motion, in order that the vote of the should be taken into account; and in that