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Comments were made by members on the report.

Motion by Delford Lang: “I move that this council accept the report of all the delegates, all the way down-I make that as a motion.”

Seconded.
Result of motion : Motion carried by "ayes." (Report accepted.)

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Mr. CRAWFORD. There has been some inference made that I had something to do with putting the per capita payment in that bill, and I had nothing to do with it. I was not heard before the Senate committee and the only time I took part in this was when the bill came over to the House. Senator Cordon and Senator Morse knew about this. You had better ask your friend, Senator Morse, about that.

Senator NEUBERGER. Did you discuss this with them?
Mr. CRAWFORD. No; I picked the bill up in the House.

Senator NEUBERGER. How are you free to say they both knew about it?

Mr. CRAWFORD. Cordon and Morse were our Senators in the Senate and Cordon reported the bill out on the floor of the Senate. Morse is as much to blame for it as Cordon is. I don't think anyone is to blame. I think at that time Senator Morse was heartily in favor of it because he has talked to me about it many, many times.

He thought the Indians should be free from this bureaucracy and he so made the statement on the floor of the Senate many times, and the record speaks for itself.

Before I go any further, I would like to point out that last fall, in October, three timber sales were made on the Klamath Reservation which forced the Indians again to subsidize sustained yield, so I offer for the record the lumber companies that had purchased the timber and a map here showing the units that were contracted.

It is common knowledge that the Indians are paying very dearly for subsidizing sustained yield, and it has cost us millions of dollars over this period of 41 years that this has been going on.

I want to say there was no reason for making those timber sales other than that the lumber companies wanted the logs. They were just log hungry and they did not have any logs and they went in there and grabbed. It was a quick sale. You have heard the terms “fire sales," "quick sales," "boom-and-bust sales." Well, this was a "quick

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sale.

It was advertised in the local paper for 30 days and was approved of within a week and the lumber companies were in there cutting the timber within 24 hours from the time the sale was approved. So you cannot say that it was done for the Indians. They had at that time $2,190,649.75.

Senator NEUBERGER. Mr. Crawford, I want to say this one thing. Mr. CRAWFORD. I offer this for the record.

Senator NEUBERGER. It has been offered for the record and it will be included.

$39. 50
38. 50
6. 00

40.55
40. 55
6. 00

$152, 740. 75

42. 76 38. 00 6. 00

479, 106.00

(The information is as follows:) 2B. Klamath Lumber & Box Co.:

Ponderosa pine---
Sugar pine----

Lodgepole and other--
Chiloquin Timber Co.:

Ponderosa pine_-
Sugar pine -
Lodgepole and other-

High.
2C. Klamath Lumber & Box Co.:

Ponderosa pine_-
Sugar pine-
Lodgepole and other-

High---
Simplot-DeVoe Lumber Co.:

Ponderosa pine
Sugar pine---

Lodgepole and other.
Chiloquin Timber Co.:

Ponderosa pine..
Sugar pine----

Lodgepole and other--3A. Chiloquin Timber Co.:

Ponderosa pine.
Sugar pine---

Lodgepole and other.
Modoc Lumber Co.:

Ponderosa pine-
Sugar pine--
Lodgepole and other.

High.

10. 65
10. 65
6. 00

39. 30
39. 30
6. 00

39. SO
39. 80
6. 00

42. 70 38. 00 6. 00

441, 260.00

Total.--

1, 373, 406, 75 Average

41.90 (The map was unsuitable for reproduction and is on file with the committee for reference purposes.)

Senator NEUBERGER. Inasmuch as you mention the names of a number of Senators and Congressmen, I think the record should contain the names of Senators and Representatives of the Interior Committees of the House and Senate of the 83d Congress, 2d session, when these bills were reported and the names of the members of the Indian Subcommittee.

It is only fair that they be included in the record so I will ask Mr. Gamble at this point to obtain the personnel of both the Interior Committee of the House and of the Senate at the time this legislation was enacted.

(The committees and subcommittees of the 83d Cong., 2d sess., referred to above, are as follows:)

SENATE COMMITTEE ON INTERIOR AND INSULAR AFFAIRS

GUY CORDON,, Oregon, Chairman ELGENE D. MILLIKIN, Colorado

JAMES E. MURRAY, Montana GEORGE W. MALONE, Nevada

CLINTON P. ANDERSON, New Mexico ARTHUR V. WATKINS, Utah

RUSSELL B. LONG, Louisiana HENRY C. DWORSHAK, Idaho

HENRY M. JACKSON, Washington THOMAS H. KUCHEL, California

PRICE DANIEL, Texas FRANK A. BARRETT, Wyoming

ALTON LENNOŃ, North Carolina EDIVARD D. CRIPPA, Wyoming

THOMAS A. BURKE, Ohio

SENATE SUBCOMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS

ARTHUR V. WATKINS, l'tah, Chairman HENRY C. DWORSHAK, Idaho

CLINTON P. ANDERSON, New Mexico THOMAS H. KUCHEL, California

ALTON LENNON, North Carolina

HOUSE COMMITTEE ON INTERIOR AND INSULAR AFFAIRS

A. L. MILLER, Nebraska, Chairman WESLEY A. D’EWART, Montana

CLAIR ENGLE, California JOHN P. SAYLOR, Pennsylvania

KEN REGAN, Texas WILLIAM H. HARRISON, Wyoming

LLOYD M. BENTSEN, JR., Texas J. ERNEST WHARTON, New York

WAYNE N. ASPINALL, Colorado E. Y. BERRY, South Dakota

SAMUEL W. YORTY, California H. R. GROSS, Iowa

JAMES G. DONOVAN, New York GEORGE H. BENDER, Ohio

LEO W. O'BRIEN, New York WILLIAM A. DAWSON, Utah

WALTER ROGERS, Texas JACK WESTLAND, Washington

GRACIE PFOST, Idaho JOHN R. PILLION, New York

JAMES A. HALEY, Florida CLIFTON (CLIFF) YOUNG, Nevada

GEORGE A. SHUFORD, North Carolina CRAIG HOSMER, California JOHN J. RHODES, Arizona HAMER H. BUDGÉ, Idaho

MRS. JOSEPH R. FARRINGTON (Dele

gate), Hawaii E. L. BARTLETT (Delegate), Alaska A. FERNÓS-ISERN (Commissioner), Puerto

Rico

HOUSE SUBCOMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS

E. Y. BERRY, South Dakota, Chairman A. L. MILLER, Nebraska

CLAIR ENGLE, California WESLEY A. D’EWART, Montana

WAYNE N. ASPINALL, Colorado JOHN P. SAYLOR, Pennsylvania

JAMES G. DONOVAN, New York WILLIAM H. HARRISON, Wyoming

JAMES A. HALEY, Florida J. ERNEST WHARTON, New York

GEORGE A. SHUFORD, North Carolina JACK WESTLAND, Washington

E. L. BARTLETT, Alaska
CLIFTON (CLIFF) YOUNG, Nevada
JOHN J. RHODES, Arizona

Senator NEUBERGER. You have 10 minutes more. Do you want to address yourself to the 2 bills that are before us and on which we are going to take some subcommittee action of one kind or another, in those remaining 10 minutes !

Mr. CRAWFORD. I want to say this, Mr. Chairman, that at this time, with all of the confusion and the wide difference between you and the Secretary of the Interior and the Department of Agriculture, that I cannot

Senator NEUBERGER. I would not say it was a wide difference. We have a disagreement only on certain points.

Mr. CRAWFORD. You are taking up my time. You can answer that after I am through.

I just want to say this: Do you have a letter, Mr. Chairman, of February 6, 1958, from C. Robert Mathis stating that they are willing to buy the entire reservation for cash, and I mention this now because you have repeatedly said that people are not interested.

Senator NEUBERGER. I have not repeatedly said that at all.
Mr. CRAWFORD. So you are insisting upon Federal purchase.

Here is a very reputable firm of attorneys that have clients who are willing to pay cash for that entire reservation and pay the fair-market value. Mr. Seaton's bill refers to private and Government purchase. I think you had better look into this a little bit.

Senator NEUBERGER. This letter is going to be offered for the record. The letter is dated February 6, 1958, from Mr. C. Robert Mathis, who is a member of the Washington office of Davies, Richberg, Tydings, Landa & Duff, and the salient paragraph I am going to read because it is only one sentence:

We represent a client who for some time past has been, and still is, very much interested in purchasing the entire Klamath forest, and all Klamath tribal lands, for a cash consideration.

Would you favor an enactment of S. 3051 so the client could bid upon the 11 blocks of timber?

Mr. CRAWFORD. They are willing to buy it without any amendments in Congress, are willing to buy it under Public Law 587 and pay cash for everything

Senator NEUBERGER. Are they willing to have a sustained-yield basis?

Mr. CRAWFORD. I can't speak for them. The letter speaks for itself. I happened to get a copy of the letter.

Senator NEUBERGER. Do you think it would be a good idea to ask Mr. C. Robert Mathis to come before the subcommittee?

Mr. COBURN. I think the offer should be examined.

Senator NEUBERGER. For the record, I will say publicly that I intended to conclude these hearings at noon today, and we are going to conclude them in 5 minutes for today only. I am going to invite Mr. C. Robert Mathis, of Davies, Richberg, Tydings, Landa & Duff, to come—I don't know if he is in the room—before the subcommittee and amplify this offer which has been presented in a letter, which will be inserted in the record at this point. (The letter is as follows:)

WASHINGTON, D. C., February 6, 1958. Subject: S. 2047 and S. 3051, Klamath Indian Reservation. Hon. RICHARD L. NEUBERGER,

Chairman, Indian Affairs Subcommittee of Senate Committee on Interior

and Insular Affairs, Senate Office Building, Washington, D. C. MY DEAR SENATOR NEUBERGER: We undestand that hearings have recently been in progress regarding the sale or other disposition of the Klamath tribal lands.

We represent a client who for some time past has been, and still is, very much interested in purchasing the entire Klamath forest, and all Klamath tribal lands, for a cash consideration.

Sometime about the middle of 1957 the undersigned met with the Honorable Hatfield Chilson, Under Secretary of the Interior, and during the meeting informed him of the foregoing.

I am informed that Under Secretary Chilson recently appeared as a witness before your committee and stated in effect that he did not know of any private party who is interested in purchasing the Klamath lands and forest. Perhaps Mr. Chilson may have overlooked or not remembered our meeting and the information we gave him regarding a potential purchaser. I am sending Mr. Chilson a copy of this letter and requesting that he confirm to your committee my meeting and conversation as set forth herein.

In any event, the purpose of this letter is to inform you that we still represent this party and that he presently is interested in purchasing the Klamath forest and tribal lands for cash provided that a fair value can be established and agreement can be reached on other necessary factors. We have requested that our name be placed on the list of those to receive information regarding the availability of this timber and these lands for purchase. We would appreciate it if you would have our letter incorporated in the transcript of your hearings regarding the subject bills. Respectfully yours,

DAVIES, RICHBERG, TYDINGS, LANDA & DUFF,

By C. ROBERT MATHIS. Mr. CRAWFORD. This is a very unpleasant task I have and I speak for Mrs. Crawford and myself, in coming before the committee to try to work out something for the best interest of the Klamath Indians.

I think the decent thing to do is to sit down as business people and as the timber owners, to sit down with people who are interested in purchasing timber, timber buyers, and get all the information that is available with regard to the timber and the lands and do it in a businesslike way rather than a political show that is going on here now that never has accomplished anything.

Mr. Jackson and his group have advocated and discussed with you, to extend the time on this subject to have further hearings. They have had hearings with Governor McKay when he was governor. They had hearings with the interim committee that was here before your committee. They have had hearings with the Department of Interior and hearings all over the country and they want to continue to travel around and make big speeches and draw their pay and complain and drag this thing on over a period of years in an endless chain of studies and studies.

I wrote in my lifetime four plans for the Klamath Indians to administer their property and one of these plans was for them to completely take over from Government supervision, and the Indians turned it down. Mr. Jackson wrote a plan and the Indians turned it down. Why go on and on like this? It is a burden to the taxpayers of the country and it is going to break the Klamath Indians if this sort of procedure is continued.

Senator NEUBERGER. I thank you, Mr. and Mrs. Crawford.

Mrs. CRAWFORD. I would like to have this inserted in the record. It was taken from the financial record in the Klamath Agency. Mr. Olney gives the overall costs of all expenditures, tribal funds for fiscal year 1957: $759,946.95.

That, Senator, is our concern; these tribal funds are going down the drain. As you have heard the testimony, children own more than half of these equities. We have to stop this drain. We have to stop these exorbitant costs. It is going to break us.

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