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Senator NEUBERGER. Thank you very much, Mr. Jackson. I know that you and your associates will collaborate and work with Mr. Lang in the statement on Mr. Weyerhaeuser's proposal, which we will have at our committee offices by November 1.

Before I conclude the hearings for today, I would like to ask the lady in the back of the room the name of the little Indian girl who has been here, if I can. Can somebody tell me the name of the little Indian girl who has been here in this hearing room, because I think the record should show her name. I believe she is the best behaved little girl who has the most patience and shows the best kind of behavior with more talk from adults than any little girl I have ever known, and I think her name ought to be in the hearing record. What is her name?

FROM THE FLOOR. Elizabeth Marie Lang.
Senator NEUBERGER. And how old is she, please!
FROM THE FLOOR. She is 4.

Senator NEUBERGER. Well, if anybody deserves a star in her book for good behavior, Elizabeth Marie Lang deserves it today, and I wanted the hearing record to show her name.

Before we conclude, is there anybody else who wishes to be heard? I would like to ask if Mr. Forrest Cooper is here. We had received several letters from Mr. Cooper. Is Mr. Forrest Cooper in the room? I don't hear from Mr. Cooper.

I would like to include in the hearing record an article written on the American Forestry Association annual meeting by Mr. William M. Blair of the New York Times, which appeared in that newspaper for October 1. The article is entitled “Experts Discuss Indians Timber” and gives some of the views that the American Forestry Association had, as reported by Mr. William M. Blair of the New York Times staff, and I think it would be useful to give an additional aspect on the matter to appear in the hearing record.

(The document referred to follows:)

[From the New York Times, October 1, 1957)

EXPERTS DISCUSS INDIANS' TIMBER— FORESTERS PONDER DISPOSAL OF THE

KLAMATHS' 800,000 ACRES ON OREGON LAND

By William M. Blair MADISON, Wis., September 30.—The American Forestry Association joined the Klamath Indians today on one of the country's touchiest Indian and timberresource questions.

Neither the Oregon Indians nor the association's board of directors has decided on how to dispose of the Indians' valuable timber on a reservation guaranteed by a treaty of 1867.

About 800,000 Oregon acres of ponderosa pine are at stake in the fight that Congress will be called upon again next year to decide. At stake, also, is the future of some 2,000 Indians who have split on whether they will take cash, break up the tribe, put the land into a corporation to sell the timber to private interests, sell outright to the Government or private lumber interests, or develop some other scheme.

An appraisal, begun in 1953, by the Department of the Interior, still has not been made public. It is said that the appraisal by a team of management specialists named by the Department has set the timber value at $114 million.

SEEN AS POLITICAL ISSUE

It is likely that the question will be injected into the 1958 congressional elections in the Pacific Northwest where Democrats have accused the administration of giveaway of natural resources to private interests.

Professional foresters and timber-industry representatives on the association's board, like the Indians, also are split as the national organization opened its 82d annual meeting.

The professionals urged outright purchase by the Government of the forest reservation land. They contended this was necessary to make certain it will be managed for sustained yield as a prime natural resource and protected against exploitation. They feared clear cutting or denuding the land would follow a breakup of the timber for sale to private interests.

The timbermen balked Government purchase. They want the forest in private hands to help build the economy by getting it on the tax rolls. Their argument is a part of the running fight over Government landholdings in the Western State. For example, 80 percent of Oregon's forest land is public land.

AGREE ON ONE THING

The opposing sides appear to agree on one thing: The Indians want the most money they can get.

Whatever the outcome of the conflict, it will establish a precedent on the disposal of natural resources on Indian land. Several States are watching the Klamath issue closely. These include Wisconsin.

Gov. Vernon W. Thomson, of Wisconsin, who welcomed the association today, cited his State's problem in preserving the 220,000-acre magnificent stand of northern hardwoods and conifers (any cone-bearing tree), in the Menominee Indian Reservation of northern Wisconsin.

He said the time was approaching for the termination of Federal guardianship, but that the difficulty was “finding a solution which will be equitable for all.

"Some special State legislation may be necessary,” he said. But, he cautioned the association, "we will not permit the exploitation of this forest or the exploitation of these people.”

The association's 3-day conference is devoted to canvassing the future of timber utilization and the fu re of adequate natural resources for a growing population.

Mr. LANG. Before I leave, I would like to say this, that beforesorry I didn't attend the meeting in Klamath Falls, but before I left home there were some of my members came up to me and told me, "Tell the Senator; urge the Federal purchase.”

Senator NEUBERGER. Thank you, Mr. Lang.

Mr. WEYERHAEUSER. Might I make an answering remark to Mr. Crawford, before the termination of the hearing, just to clarify a point?

Senator NEUBERGER. Yes, Mr. Weyerhaeuser. I don't want to prolong this, or promote a debate. I just want to say for the record, as you know, this is not a debate. We are trying to get all possible information, but, if you feel something was said that should be clarified, and I know you won't make it argumentative but merely factual, won't you come up

here and present it? Mr. WEYERHAEUSER. Very briefly, I just wanted to agree with what Mr. Crawford said about the value of the timber. I believe he said he believed that the maximum value would come through small-patch offerings and maximize the retail value, and he mentioned values from $25 to $35 a thousand. I believe hé misunderstood, or did not have an opportunity to study our presentation, because that presentation was based on the assumption that those figures are realistic in relation to small sales, and the conclusion that we arrived at for the overal value of the block was based on the conviction that the smallvalue sale of $30, $35, whatever the quality of that timber is, when projected over 4 billion feet, would result in the discount factor. I don't believe there is any argument about the value of that timber being a hundred million dollars when projected over small sales over a great many years.

I just wanted to say that so that, certainly, there is no argument on our part about the value, and the question that they should receive the very maximum value that can be justified.

Senator NEUBERGER. Thank you very much, Mr. Weyerhaeuser. As we stated earlier, the hearing record will be kept open until November 1, 1957, for any bona fide statement of reasonable length that can be submitted. They should be sent to Mr. James H. Gamble, Senate Indian Affairs Subcommittee, room 224, Senate Office Building, Washington, D. C.

We thank all of you very much for your information and opinions, and our hearing now stands in recess.

(The hearing adjourned at 5:45 p. m.)

(The following material was received by the committee after the conclusion of the hearings :)

INTERNATIONAL WOODWORKERS OF AMERICA,

Portland, Oreg., October 11, 1957. Hon. RICHARD NEUBERGER,

United States Senate, Washington, D. C. DEAR DICK: I am writing this letter to express my opinions in behalf of the International Woodworkers of America relative to the disposal of the Klamath Indian Reservation, especially that portion which is covered by timber.

I was hopeful that I could appear in person before your committee when you had your hearing in Klamath Falls, but was unable to do so because of the many problems I had to take care of at the conclusion of our internaitonal convention.

I have studied the reports that have been appearing in the Oregonian and Journal relative to testimony by individuals and heads of large timber companies, such as the Weyerhaeuser Timber Co. I am definitely opposed to allowing one big company to get control of all of the timber which is involved in the Klamath Indian Reservation. It would create a monopoly which, in a few short years, would put out of business most of the other smaller companies which are operating in that area,

I am still of the firm opinion that the best interest of the people living in and around the Klamath Indian Reservation, the State of Oregon, the Federal Government, yes, and even such large corporations as the Weyerhaeuser Timber Co., will be far better off to have the Federal Government purchase these timberlands and place them under the control and supervision of the United States Forestry Department. In that way it gives the Forestry Department the opportunity to have a larger area in which to carry out their selective-cutting and sustained-yield forestry programs, which will be in the best interest of all of us.

I hope my few remarks don't come in too late for consideration by your committee, prior to making this most important decision. If we are going to meet our responsibilities as citizens, we must protect the rights of the Klamath Indians and get for them the best value possible out of the commodities and land which was granted them through peace treaties. Sincerely yours,

A. F. HARTUNG, International President.

ELLINGSON LUMBER Co.,

Klamath Falls, Oreg., October 15, 1957. Subject: Klamath Indian Reservation liquidation. Hon. RICHARD NEUBERGER, United States Senator,

Post Office Building, Portland, Oreg. DEAR SIR: In regard to this liquidation problem, I would prefer to have the Klamath Indian Reservation restored to its original status. This, of course, would mean repealing bill No. 587. It would seem to me that the Bureau of Indian Affairs could put the Klamath Indians on notice at this time and tell them that, 20 years from today they will be totally on their own. This would solve the Indians' problems to some extent and also solve the so-called economic difficulties that might develop if the reservation were to be liquidated now.

I am sure the Bureau of Indian Affairs would like to rid itself of a few more Indian problems, as I see a well-trodden path to their doors from the many reservations. Actually, I think the Bureau has done a pretty fair job in this area, which I am somewhat familiar with. If this is not possible, I would suggest turning the reservation over to the Bureau of Land Management. They have, in the past, been quite efficient. They have a good record. I don't agree with all of their policies, but they do get the jobs done. The Bureau of Land Management at Salem has an area administrator, Mr. Otto Krueger, who, many years ago, worked the Klamath Reservation and is very familiar with the region and its problems.

I am sorry that I cannot agree with a great many people in letting the Forest Service buy the reservation, for a number of reasons. First, their record is not as good as it might be. In the past 3 years they have requested a budget from Washington of $263,300,000. They received $273,700,000. This is more than they asked for, yet they are always quoting in public and publicizing that they are short of funds and have no manpower. These statements are not true. The Secretary of Agriculture, Dr. McCartle, should issue a directive to stop attempting to mislead the public.

In the Oregonian, Mr. Aufderheide, forest supervisor of the Willamette Forest, in Eugene, Oreg., reported a shortage of funds about 2 weeks ago. As Astoria, 2 to 3 weeks ago, the Forest Service was putting words in the mouth of the Association of Oregon Counties regarding funds and budget cuts. This is not entirely true. As to the record of their accomplishments with all the money they have requested, why have they not put up and sold their annual allowable cuts? They requested funds for over 3 billion feet in regions 1, 5, and 6 for the past 4 years. In the same period they have not averaged but 2 billion feet, yet they have had funds for a total of 3 billion feet. Where did the excess unused funds go?

Secondly, the appraisal system of timber values is not realistic. Some of their sales figures are actually fantastic. Appraising timber should be sound, and not a matter of attempting to push log grades higher than their values really are. Also, the Forest Service has defective areas that they refuse to log out. We have asked why, for 15 to 20 years, and are still wondering. I believe in sustained yield, but sustained yield means wise and prudent usage and not merely locking the door for 50 years.

If you will look back, even during the war years, the Forest Service never achieved their annual full allowable cut. I am sure you would not turn over additional work to one who has not produced in the past. It seems to me that the Forest Service cannot administer what they now have, so why give them more. Yours very truly,

ROBERT P. ELLINGSON, Jr.

STATEMENT OF THE CONFEDERATED TRIBES OF THE WARM SPRINGS RESERVATION OF

OREGON

The Confederated Tribes of the Warm Springs Reservation of Oregon appreciate the opportunity to participate in the hearing before the Senate Subcommittee on Indian Affairs concerning the Klamath termination problems.

All of us are extremely sympathetic to the Klamath people who have been caught up in the whirlwind of termination. It is only human nature to sympathize more strongly for someone when we are able to look at his plight and see our own reflections in the mirror. We are better able to understand the problems of other people when we can associate their situation with our own.

Since the passage of the Klamath termination bill, the Warm Springs people have, in connection with their worries for the Klamath, attempting to visualize just how termination would work on the Warm Springs Reservation.

Among our people, and many of us are qualified to say that the Klamaths are very analogous, education is improving from generation to generation. There is still substantial improvement to be effected. The standard of health is substantially below average. This situation is also improving from generation to generation, but much is left to be done.

Economic education and development has been totally lacking. As I will point out later, apparently the Government seems satisfied that all of the Warm Springs Indians are farmers and are able to make a living farming upon the lands allotted to them, even though in a majority of instances the lands so allotted do not constitute an economic unit.

The overwhelming majority of our people are extremely poor, with inadequate housing and living facilities. By far the majority have not adjusted to the economic and social system of the white civilization.

A number of factors have contributed to this result and the Indians cannot accept full responsibility. The encroachment of the white civilization largely destroyed the economic basis of the Indian culture. The social system which had been developed by the Indians was not suited to conditions caused by encroachment of white civilization. Indeed, the attitudes adopted by the Government in dealing with the Indians would pauperize any group of people. For example, both the Warm Springs and the Klamaths were moved from their ancestral lands onto restricted reservations. Little or no thought was given at the time of such removal to the problems faced by the Indians in making a living. Farming, hunting, and fishing were the only possibilities and the Government undertook to furnish certain benefits and perform certain services in order to assist them in their attempt to survive. Allotments on the reservation were made in the expectation that all of the Indians would be farmers. In spite of this fact, a substantial number of the allotments on the Warm Springs Reservation do not constitute an economic unit and could not be farmed successfully. Gradually, as population has increased, farming methods have improved, and marketing conditions have become different, these economic units have become even more insufficient.

Assistance has been necessary to the Indians. But assistance has come in a manner similar to a parent holding out a small piece of candy just out of reach of the child. Uniformly, the assistance has been of a temporary or immediate type, without regard to long-range future planning. Our people wish to assist themselves and improve their economic plight. We will do so if given the opportunity.

However, many generations of mistakes in dealing with the so-called Indian problem cannot be rectified by one fell swoop taking the form of termination.

In 1953, the Congress passed House Resolution 108, which the Commissioner of Indian Affairs has interpreted as a directive to abolish Federal responsibility for the Indians as quickly as possible. Since this time, our people have lived under the constant threat that the candy which is already out of reach will be removed completely from view. Termination would eliminate the last possibility for our people to attain a substantial educational and economic level of well-being for many years to come.

The Indian leaders throughout our country have worked diligently in an effort to find some solution to our difficulties. In 1954 the executive council of the National Congress of American Indians adopted a point 4 program for the American Indian. The elements contained in the program are substantially as follows:

1. For each reservation there should be a master plan, based on complete surveys of all resources above and below the ground, including water resources, and plans should be developed to obtain maximum family subsistence from the resources. Requests for appropriations should be supported in all major details by reference to the priorities and requirements of the reservation plan.

2. For each reservation there shall be a planning commission (or committee) authorized by act of Congress to call upon the departments of the Federal Government for assistance in gathering data and for technical advice, such commissions to consist of representatives of the tribe or tribes residing on the reservation, to be selected in a manner prescribed by the tribal governing body. No plans shall be submitted to Congress that do not have the prior approval of such reservation planning commissions.

3. Requests should be submitted to Congress immediately for authority, if needed, and funds to carry out the necessary investigations and to prepare plans for Indian lànds lying within the major river drainage basins. If actions to adjudicate Indian water rights are involved, such actions should be initiated.

4. Funds should be requested to carry out timber surveys on Indian forest lands and to prepare programs for the orderly harvesting of Indian timber. Indians should be encouraged to enter into commercial production of lumber.

5. An adequate revolving credit fund should be established to permit Indians to acquire livestock and farm equipment and to develop business and industry

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