Mr. TOMLINSON. That is a very fluctuating thing, General. It runs from 3 up to 5 cents.

Representative GROSVENOR. A bushel?

Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes, sir. I have known it lower than 3 cents.

COST OF THE BOER CONFLICT.

The CHAIRMAN. It has been suggested to the Commission that at the time Great Britain withdrew her ships for transport purposes there was a large increase in the freight rates, I think 30 per cent. Mr. TOMLINSON. That is true, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. And that may happen at any time in the event of a foreign war.

Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes. Of course if we obtain the same rate that the Canadian grain obtains that is very satisfactory to us; but it is a notorious fact that every fall nowadays the freight broker in New York speculates in order to protect his shipments. Of course the grain moves very largely in the fall.

Representative GROSVENOR. We were told by a shipper of corn in Chicago that freight rates were so low that corn was being shipped, or had recently been shipped, at a loss to the steamship company; that they bid the freights so low that they could not pay the London dock charges out of the freight.

The CHAIRMAN. They practically took it as ballast.

Representative GROSVENOR. Yes; they practically took it as ballast. Mr. TOMLINSON. That is occasionally true. It is like all other business experiences. Sometimes we make money and sometimes we do not.

Representative MINOR. It does not take me long to see it. In your opinion, Captain, is any Congressional action necessary to protect the lake traffic from any impending menace or danger from this invasion of foreign vessels?

Representative GROSVENOR. Can you contract your wheat through from Duluth to Liverpool?

Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes, sir; that is a growing practice.

Representative GROSVENOR. Paying the freight in one contract? Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes, sir; on one bill of lading.

WHAT OF A GREATER WAR?

Representative MINOR. You spoke of the Boer war and the withdrawal of certain tramp ships. They were used, I suppose, to transport troops and munitions of war and supplies for the army in Africa? Mr. TOMLINSON. I suppose so.

Representative MINOR. That was rather a small affair, when we think of modern wars, and yet it affected your freight rates?

Mr. TOMLINSON. Yes, sir.

Representative MINOR. Now, suppose that a war should take place between Germany and England or that the two nations should become involved in a serious war, and that they should withdraw, in the same proportion as they were withdrawn for that small war over in Africa, those tramp ships to be used as transports to supply their army and navy, what then would be the effect on your wheat fields? Mr. TOMLINSON. It would paralyze us.

Representative MINOR. We are exporting and have been exporting, at the rate of about $500,000,000 a year, agricultural products, manu

factured products, etc. Suppose that war should continue for six months with these tramp ships withdrawn, what would be the effect on the whole country? Who would buy our products? Who would pay money for them, and what would we do with them during that time?

Mr. TOMLINSON. Well, the farmers' grain would be eaten up by storage charges in elevators. It is a very unfortunate fact in the Northwest that the farmer has not obtained sufficient financial resources to very generally build granaries. I mean by that he must put his grain into a terminal house in either Minneapolis or Duluth, and that would cost him from 12 to 14 cents a year.

Representative MINOR. It would cause a general paralysis of American business?

Mr. TOMLINSON. In my judgment it would.

Representative HUMPHREY. Under the circumstances which Captain Minor has described, a great portion of the farmers' products of the Northwest would rot in the fields, would it not?

Mr. TOMLINSON. It would not rot in the fields, sir, for the reason that for a very large proportion of the crop there are now terminal facilities. We can move it to Buffalo, where there is storage capacity of, I think, a little over 30,000,000 bushels, about 40,000,000 in Duluth, and about 50,000,000 in Minneapolis.

Representative MINOR. Suppose the condition should last a year, what would be the result?

Mr. TOMLINSON. If another crop came on us, we could not do anything.

The CHAIRMAN. We are very much obliged to you, sir.

The Commission will take a recess until 2 o'clock this afternoon. The Commission (at 12 o'clock and 30 minutes p. m.) took a recess until 2 o'clock p. m.

The Commission reassembled at the expiration of the recess.

STATEMENT OF A. B. WOLVIN.

Mr. GOULDER. Mr. Chairman, I have the unexpected pleasure of introducing to you Capt. A. B. Wolvin, of Duluth, who had advised us it was impossible for him to be here, but who has made a special effort and is with us.

The CHAIRMAN. Captain Wolvin, the Commission will be pleased to hear from you. I will ask first in what line of transportation you are engaged?

Mr. WOLVIN. Water transportation.

The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed, Captain.

Mr. WOLVIN. I want to say first, Senator, that my being here is something of a surprise to myself, and I am not at all prepared. Had I known I was going to be here I would have had a good deal better data, but it is perhaps permissible for me at this time to attempt to show you the possibilities of foreign ships entering the lake trade by reason of their cheaper cost and more especially on account of the cheap cost of operation.

A NEW AND OMINOUS INVASION.

To illustrate: We are operating a line of steamers between Duluth and Chicago, and Montreal and Quebec. We built 10 boats, that were

completed last year, of suitable size for canal navigation, 250 feet long, and 42 feet wide, to carry a maximum cargo on canal draft, of 14 feet, which we find in these boats to be 2,200 net tons. The cost of these boats to us, built here in the lake country, was $140,000 each. During last fall a firm of steamship owners in Sweden made overtures along the line of putting in the steamers for their own account, we to handle them simply as brokers, or they would charter the vessels to us outright. After some negotiation we decided, as we wished to control the trade as far as possible, that we would charter the vessels. The result was that we secured vessels exceptionally well adapted for the business, equally well adapted with our own boats that we had built at a cost of $140,000 apiece, and the charter reads like this:

First, there is an option on our part to purchase the vessel at any time within the charter period, running from May 1 to November 15 next, at £18,000. For the use of these vessels we pay £580 per month. That is $2,900. That furnishes the crew, pays the insurance, and finds the vessel in everything but fuel. In other words, we are operating these vessels on this charter at a cost of less than $100 a day, as you will quickly perceive, as against $135 a day, the minimum cost of operating our own boats. That is due entirely to wages. The other expenses, for feeding the crew and all that, are about the same. They all buy in the same markets here with us.

SWEDISH STEAMERS IN LAKE TRADE.

I have here a hurried letter from the captain of one of these Swedish vessels. When I knew I was coming I wired him to send a list of wages paid his crew. Unfortunately the amounts are stated in Swedish money, but I have partly reduced them to United States coin. The pay of the master per month is 300 Swedish kroner, which, reduced to American money on the basis of to-day, 26.5 cents, is $69.50 a month; we pay our captains in the same service in our own boats $200 a month. First mate, 120 kroner, $31.80 per month; we pay $100. Second mate, 90 kroner, $23.85 per month; we pay $80. Chief engineer, 180 kroner, $47.70; we pay $125. Second engineer, 130 kroner, $34.50; we pay the second engineer $100. Steward, 75 kroner, $19.97 a month; we pay $66. Seamen, 60 kroner, $15.90 per month; we pay $42.50. Firemen, 60 kroner, $15.90 per month; we pay $42.50 a month. Senator PENROSE. Do I understand these Swedish employees are on your vessels that run to Canadian ports?

Mr. WOLVIN. Yes, sir.

Mr. PENROSE. I did not quite understand the comparison.

Mr. WOLVIN. We charter the vessels from the owners in Sweden. Senator PENROSE. They are sailed under the Swedish flag, are they? Mr. WOLVIN. Yes, sir.

The CHAIRMAN. It would be agreeable to the Commission if you would submit the letter in its entirety, changing the money, as you suggest, into our standard.

Mr. WOLVIN. And our scale of wages in a column by itself?
The CHAIRMAN. Yes.

Senator PENROSE. I think those figures are extremely interesting and important, and it would be well to have them accurate.

Mr. WOLVIN. I am familiar with the whole situation, and to my mind it is one of the best instances of comparison.

Senator PENROSE. It is the best I have heard.

The letter referred to is as follows:

CHEAP SWEDISH WAGES.

BUFFALO, June 25, 1904.

Mr. A. B. WOLVIN, Cleveland.

SIR: Receiving a letter from Duluth asking for information as to the operating expenses aboard, to be sent to you.

The crew consists of 17 men, master included, and their wages are as follows:

The cost of provisions per month are about $204.

Their contracts last until vessel gets back to Sweden.

Should you like to purchase the steamer now the crew can be kept aboard until the fall of the year.

Yours, truly,

P. E. ROLFF, Master.

FOUR HUNDRED OF THESE SHIPS IN SWEDEN.

Mr. WOLVIN. You have no doubt heard in your sessions the sentiments of the man on the coast who operates a ship in a direct or indirect importation and exportation business. No one has ever thought that this cheap operating tonnage would be of so serious moment as far inland as the Lake country. No one thought they would get here; but, as I say, last fall the Swedish owners sent a man out here and said: "Unless we find somebody on the Lakes to take these boats on a charter, we will operate them here on our own account." There are something over 400 of those little steamers in Sweden that are looking to this trade.

The CHAIRMAN. Captain, are these Swedish steamers as well adapted to the lake trade as the ones built on the Lakes?

Mr. WOLVIN. Yes, sir; I think better.

COST $50,000 LESS THAN LAKE SHIPS.

Representative GROSVENOR. Right in that connection, you spoke of the $140,000 that you expended for the building of certain ships. Mr. WOLVIN. Yes, sir.

Representative GROSVENOR. And you said that these, at $90,000, were a similar type of ship?

Mr. WOLVIN. Yes, sir.

Representative GROSVENOR. Were they built as well in respect to material and labor and made as valuable ships as yours?

Mr. WOLVIN. Yes, sir; that is why I think they are better. They are better from the standpoint of construction in that they are a little heavier, which to a practical man means a good deal in canal operations. We scheme everything here with the idea of reducing the cost. Here is a ship that, from the standpoint of construction, is a better ship than we, the owner-not the builder, but the owner-would specify in his contract with the builder, having in mind when he makes his contract the item of cost. The vessels carry well; they run well. We have no trouble with the crews. They are anxious to do all we want them to do.

Senator PENROSE. Captain, does it cost as much to feed the crews on these Swedish vessels as on the American vessels, or is that about the same?

CREWS FED FOR LESS.

Mr. WOLVIN. The captain tells me in this letter that he is feeding his whole crew for practically $200 a month. It costs us about $250 to $260 a month. They are enabled to feed their men on this plan: The captain takes the contract for supplying the subsistence for the crew. He is allowed in this case, I believe, 40 cents a day in gold for feeding his men and taking care of the cook. We can not do that here. Senator PENROSE. Does it require any more men on the Swedish ships than on the corresponding American vessel?

Mr. WOLVIN. He says here that his crew consists of 17 men, master included.

Senator PENROSE. It was testified on the Atlantic seaboard that the men were overworked on the American vessels-that they were undermanned, in other words.

SMALLER IN NUMBER.

Representative GROSVENOR. How many men are there in your

crews?

Mr. WOLVIN. Twenty-one.

Senator PENROSE. Then the foreign ship has less men?

Mr. WOLVIN. Yes, sir.

Representative MINOR. The Norwegians are noted for small crews

anyway.

Mr. WOLVIN. Yes, sir.

Senator PENROSE. That is contrary to the experience in the foreign carrying trade, as testified to before the Commission.

Representative GROSVENOR. This is the foreign trade.
Senator PENROSE. Yes; the lake trade.

I mean the ocean trade.

Representative GROSVENOR. They come from Sweden. Mr. WOLVIN. I do not know that the average lake-steamboat man has any realization of what may happen by reason of the ability of the foreigners to compete, especially the Swedes, Norwegians, and Danes. They operate more cheaply than anybody operating floating property. They have something like 400 vessels of this class now in commission owned by the different countries or sailing under the different flags, and those vessels will soon be in this lake trade. The idea has occurred to only a very few men that anything of that kind could ever come so far inland. It is a new phase of the situation.