with any prospect of success. It would require more cool investigation, than the House could give it during the present

session.

Mr. Whitbread very humanely urged the House to go on with the Bill.

Mr. Rose desired gentlemen, before they resolved to continue a debate on so important a subject, to ask themselves whether it became the cause, or would tell in its favour without doors, when it should be known that it was agitated in so thin a House? He therefore advised, that all parties should agree to let the discussion stand over for the morrow.

petitioners. All he desired was, that the Bill might meet with fair play, and that if evidence against it was listened to, he might be permitted to bring evidence in support of it. The purpose of his introducing a bill on the subject of the Slave Trade was not to bring forward the consideration of the immorality of that Trade; it was not indirectly to accelerate a premature discussion of the general question concerning the policy and propriety of continuing the Slave Trade under certain regulations, or of abolishing it altogether; but to call the attention of parliament to a particular and distinct object, which might properly be made the ground of immediate regulation, without involving any of the larger or more general considerations to which the subject might lead. It was, in fact, to save the lives of hundreds and thousands that must necessarily perish, if some such regulations as he had adverted to, were not adopted without

motion.

Upon this, sir Charles Middleton moved that the House might be counted, which being done, and forty members not being present, an adjournment took place.

May 28. Lord Penrhyn brought up a petition from the merchants and traders of Liverpool, stating the long existence of the African Slave Trade; the essential benefits the country had derived from it; the encouragement that the legislature held out to individuals to embark their fortunes in it; and the injury that they must necessarily suffer from any sudden measure being taken respecting it. Having heard, therefore, that a bill was in the House for the purpose of operating a partial regulation, which they conceived to be founded on facts that were not true, they prayed to be heard by themselves and their counsel against the said bill. The petition was ordered to lie on the table, and the petitioners were ordered to be allowed to be heard by their counsel on the second reading of the Bill. Mr. Ewer brought up a petition from the merchants of London to the same effect with the Liverpool petition, and similar motions were put upon it, and agreed to.

Sir William Dolben said, that he was far from harbouring the most distant intention of thwarting the prayer of the

so many lives were liable to be lost by the continuance of the practices which had obtained in the transport of the natives of Africa to the West Indies, he had been called upon to bring proof of his assertion. He had answered, that he was not then prepared to bring forward the necessary evidence, but that he would undertake to do so on a future day. It was now some days since he had declared in his place, that he was ready to produce many of the most respectable characters; in short, witnesses out of number, and of almost every description of persons likely to be conversant with the subject, who would prove at the bar, beyond all contradiction, that the grievances he had complained of actually existed, and that there was such a stowage of the persons of the unfortunate Africans, on board the transport vessels, for the sake of saving a penny, as must shock the humanity and rouse the indignation of that House, and of every man of feeling in the country. These miserable wretches had not a yard square allowed them to live in, while, in that narrow space they were loaded with shackles, and fastened hand to hand and foot to foot to one another. When he had said he was ready to prove these facts at the bar, he had understood, that the hon. gentleman, who had appeared to be adverse on the first mention of the Bill, had declared, they would not object to the Bill, if such facts could be substantiated, which they did not believe was very probable. He would do

them the justice to observe, that they had only made that declaration on behalf of themselves, and had reserved the right of farther opposition, in case their constituents should so instruct them. It now appeared, their constituents had so instructed them, and two petitions had that day been presented. If the petitioners could controvert the facts he had stated, they ought to be heard; but if the throwing in petitions, and desiring to be heard by counsel, was merely a manoeuvre to put off his question for another year, in order to enjoy another year's advantage of such inhuman practices, it would be a shameful insult on that House, and no answer at all to those who declared they were ready to bring evidence to the bar to prove the facts. He had heard several extraordinary things asserted in defence of the subsisting mode of stowage of the Africans on board of ship, in their passage to the West Indies. Many had said, that the ships most crowded were the most healthy, and others, that the time passed on board a ship, while transporting from Africa to the colonies, was the happiest part of negro's life. Strange as these assertions were, they had been gravely urged as excuses for the prevailing practices, although it was undeniable that the negroes were in shackles and bound hand and foot all the time of their passage. He had no object whatever but the cause of humanity: he had all along meant to avoid any thing like personality, and he trusted that he had done so that day. He had a very great respect for the merchants of Liverpool and London. He should be a most ungrateful man, if he did not profess and feel liberally towards the former, since he had been most hospitably entertained at Liverpool. Indeed, he believed that he had eaten more turtle there, than he had ever eaten in the course of his life; but he would readily give up their turtle and burgundy, for mock turtle and plain port, if they would consent to forego some part of their profits, for the sake of accommodating the poor negroes better while on ship-board The merchants of Liverpool, he verily believed, were not aware of the hardships the natives of Africa suffered while on board of their ships; but in order to enable them to judge of the pleasantness of their situation, he said, let some of them take a summary voyage to Africa and the West Indies, under similar circumstances. And, as he understood there were generally two houses concerned, let

them unite hand to hand, and foot to foot, as well as unite interest and purse, and thus chained to one another, let them continue upon the waves during dangerous storms and perilous gales, rolling about with shackles upon them, in their own sickness and its consequences, fluxes, pestilential distempers, and the danger of premature death! After experiencing those extraordinary proofs of happiness, let the Liverpool merchants come to the bar of the House, and substantiate their assertions, and he would readily give them credit, and so, no doubt, would the House! Sir William concluded with declaring, that he hoped the House would not suffer any artificial or interested delay. He was ready to move that the Bill be read a second time on Friday, or Monday, or any other early day, so that he should not be deprived of the opportunity of passing it during the present session.

Mr. Martin said, that when the subject was last under the consideration of the House, he had heard a noble lord talk of the calumnies that were cast upon those concerned in the Slave Trade: now, he could not conceive what motive those who professed themselves friends to the present Bill could have, to calumniate the merchants of Liverpool and London. For his part, he had the highest respect for the character of a British merchant. Did gentlemen who wished to put off the present Bill, consider that several thousand lives might be saved by its being carried? If so, should they persist in opposing it? He hoped gentlemen would reflect on the importance of the subject. If after the facts that had been stated, any gentlemen could refuse to give their consent to the present Bill, let them retire to rest" with what appetite they may."

Lord Penrhyn said, that the hon. gentleman had asked, what grounds there could be for opposition to the Bill? For his own part, he could declare, that his constituents, under the sanction and faith of parliament, had continued for many years to carry on the African Trade; that they had every reason to think it a legal Trade, and such as they might pursue without imputation of inhumanity. Such ships as had not yet sailed, were equipped and ready, and his constituents thought it hard that they should be prevented from sending them on their voyages, when they had committed no crime, and because the credulity of some persons had been imposed upon. Was that no ground for opposing the

Bill? The hon. baronet had talked a great deal of the petitions, and had stated many strong facts against the petitioners. After what had been said, might not the petitioners have a wish to clear themselves; and was not that a reasonable wish? The hon. baronet doubted whether they would come to the bar. Did he think they would not have their characters cleared; most undoubtedly they would. The hon. baronet had urged the great necessity of passing his Bill in the present session. What effect could it produce? The greatest part of the ships employed in the African Trade were already sailed; it could not therefore have any operation upon them; and those captains who were yet to sail, after what had passed in that House would be cautious in what they did from principles of prudence, if they were not influenced by motives of pure humanity. What inducements any persons might have to disperse calumny he knew not, but he was certain the merchants of Liverpool had been grossly calumniated. The petitioners considered the Bill as an attack upon them, which was not justified by either fact or necessity. It singled them out from every other description of merchants, and therefore, feeling it to be as unwarrantable as it was ill timed, they were determined to dispute its principle throughout.

Mr. Pitt observed, that the noble lord had said the petitioners were determined to dispute the principle of the Bill throughout: now, he would take upon him to assert, that no man could dispute the principle of the Bill; for what was the principle, but an endeavour to prevent a certain number of persons, sent on board of ships from Africa to the West Indies, from being ill-treated during their passage? The petitioners might dispute the facts on which the Bill was professedly founded, and question whether they existed at all; or, if the facts were admitted or proved, they might dispute the propriety of the regulations contained in the Bill; but no man could say, that if the facts actually existed, it was not proper to meet those facts with adequate regulations. For his own part, he should not agree to any regulation the Bill might contain, which opposed indirectly the Trade itself, when the general question of its abolition was not before the House. With regard to the present Bill, its object was such as the House were bound to take up; because, having resolved to suspend the conside

ration of the general question till the next session, it became their duty to provide against the possibility of any abuse arising in consequence of their suspension. He did not know that any of the abuses that had been stated existed, but he saw a possibility of those abuses, or some other arising out of their latter resolution; and surely the petitioners had no right to object against a Bill calculated to prevent the growth of such abuses. He wished, therefore, that the motion had been for the petitioners not to be heard against the second reading, but in a committee, where the facts which they might reasonably question, or the propriety of the regulations could alone be gone into. In his mind, the best mode parliament could adopt, would be, to keep the subject entire till the next session, and, therefore, he should wish to make as little alteration in any part of the conduct of the Trade as possible; but if, upon inquiry, it was proved that it was carried on in a manner free from abuse, merely to take care to secure that it should so continue to be carried on till next session.

Mr. Fox could not see without concern the species of opposition which had arisen against the present Bill. From what he knew of his noble friend's mind, he was sure he did not mean to oppose the principle of the Bill, but to dispute the truth of the facts alleged as the reasons and grounds of the Bill. That being, he was persuaded, his noble friend's opinion, he wondered he should make that a reason for opposing the Bill upon the second reading. Such a Bill was not to be answered by high sounding words, and by saying, these abuses that are stated to prevail are calumnies. Out-door reports might be called calumnies; but no man could call those calumnies, which were facts stated by a member of that House, in his place, who was ready to call witnesses to the bar, to prove the truth of them. That being the case, he, for one did assume the facts, and it would be extremely unjust to the petitioners, were he not to make such assumption. He did not think there was a man in that House, who wished an opposition to the Bill, if the facts stated by the hon. baronet were true, and therefore the petitioners should have said-what? Not that they meant to dispute the principle of the Bill, but desired to come to the bar of that House to disprove those facts; and the time to do that was when the Bill should be in a committee. He could not, therefore, avoid observing, that the mode of applica,