amount of 1,64,18,599. But this is not Pounds Sterl. to be supposed an actual extension, but 5,698,001 arises from the sum transferred to Eng1,309,216 land, amounting to crs. 1,49,09,307. 147,075 The real decrease, therefore, of capital upon the account of debts themselves, 7,154,292 amounts to crs. 15,09,562, or 169,8251. sterling.

In truth, however, the debt actually discharged is much more than the decrease above stated; for there is no doubt the debt last year was taken too low, owing to the circumstance of the arrears at the other presidencies being much. 1,977,253 larger than lord Cornwallis supposed, 67,500 when he wrote his letter of 16th Novem

Total Charges................ 5,177,039

Net Revenues......

For Bencoolen and Penang

There remains

...

ber 1786. Here Mr. Dundas read that 1,909,758 part of lord Cornwallis's letter on the subjcct of arrears, and likewise the letter from the Governor-general in council, of 1st September 1787.

This is the revenue, after defraying every expense of establishment, according to the present state of them. But, in The statement here referred to amounts order to give full information on the sub- to the sum of 2,544,9751. But from this ject, it is proper to inform the Committee, sum is to be deducted, on account of that from this several deductions fall to Prince of Wales's Island, and some other be made. 1. The additional expense of contingencies not estimated, 48,327. the late augmentation of King's troops There remains 2,496,6481. From this is 146,250/. 2. The government customs, to be deducted, allotted on the estimate which are stated at 164,1691. 3. The for the other settlements 1,098,562., and additional sum requisite to complete the there remains the sum of 1,398,0861., native force ordered at Bombay, amount- which is the amount of the excess mening to 52,2001. 4. It appears, by a letter tioned in the Bengal letter of the 1st from lord Cornwallis, that in Sept. last September 1787, above the sum estimated he had made an addition to the cavalry to be appropriated to the other presidenat Bengal, which would occasion an in-cies, according to the estimate of receipts crease of expense above what is already and disbursements for the year ending the paid on that account of about 11,250. 30th April 1787. These are all the deductions I can figure From this sum of 1,398,0861. falls to to myself, which fall either to be added be deducted the sum of 370,795., stated to the Charges or deducted from the Re- on the account of probable receipts and venues, and adding them together they disbursements, as engaged for and examount to 373,8691., which being deduct-pected to be discharged within the period ed from the Net Revenue, there remains of the account, and therefore improperly 1,535,8841. To this must be added, as a stated as an unexpected excess. The part of the Indian funds, the amount of usual excess, therefore, is 1,027,290. Import Sales, Sales of Stores and Cer- How much of this ought to be added to tificates, amounting to, per estimate, the sum of decrease of debt depends on 355,4461. Making together 1,891,3301. the question, whether the sixty-four lacks of arrear, engaged for as mentioned in lord Cornwallis's letter of 16th November 1786, is included in the above sum. The interest of last year was stated payable in India, 716,6531., and of this yearly ac count, No. 14, 602,251. The decrease. of interest payable in India is therefore 114,4021.

This sum is applicable to the discharge of the debts in India and the purchase of investment. The debts are undoubtedly entitled to the preference, if the purchase of the investment cannot be obtained without injuring the creditors. In truth, however, these interests are perfectly reconcileable, and mutually accommodate each other. The debts last year were stated at crs. 9,26,40,162; this year they are stated at 7,62,21,563, being a decrease of debt payable in India to the [VOL. XXVII.]

From what is stated, it is obvious that the fund applicable to the investment must entirely depend on what further sum of the India debt is subscribed, for the whole. [20]

of a continuance of peace had said, he was sure they could not be at war with any body [a cry of No, no.] Mr. Francis owned he had used a high expression, but certainly the right hon. gentleman had tried to make them believe war must be at a very great distance. If so, why increase the European military force? There was one part of the right hon. gentleman's speech with which he perfectly concurred, and that was in respect to the abolition of the government customs. He was glad they were given up, as they were disgraceful, and the most teasing and irksome mode of raising a revenue, that ever was thought of. The right hon. gentleman, however, had stated the government customs at 14 lacks of rupees; he did not believe they ever produced so much. The right hon. gentleman had declared that the discount on the paper in circulation was reduced from 12 to 6 per cent. He was ready to admit they were better than before,but the right hon. gentleman seemed to suppose the certificates bore no interest; it was to be remembered they bore an interest at the rate of 8 per cent. circumstance the right hon. gentleman had sunk in the Committee. With regard to the power given to lord Cornwallis to

That

rupees. The present estimate stated the amount of certificates to be discharged in this year at 1,69,24,654 rupees, consequently that part of the Company's debt, instead of being paid off, was increased to the amount of 48,47,752. The bond debt at Bengal on the 3d Nov. 1786, was stated at 1,86,05,220 rupees. On the 31st Oct. 1787, the bond debt was stated at 1,98,85,531, consequently that debt was increased by 12,80,511, rupees. In April, 1787, the whole of the Company's debts abroad were stated at 9,26,40,162 current rupees. In May 1788, they were stated at 7,62,21,564, by which it would appear, that the difference, (viz. 1,64,18,539) had been paid off; whereas the fact was, that 150 lacks had been transferred from India to England, and were a burthen to the Company's affairs at home instead of abroad. At Bombay the annual disbursements (exclusive of the interest on a capital debt of 161 lacks at 9 per cent.) were stated to exceed the receipts by 42,34,747 current rupees. Was it possible that Bengal could be able to provide for that exeess? Was it possible for Bengal to send 101 lacks of rupees to the other presidencies? Let them hear what Mr. Hastings said on that subject, and when Mr. Hastings and he agreed, they must be right. Mr. Hast-raise the exchange, did the right hon. genings said "If the strain be carried too far on Bengal in its present state, I predict that not only its capacity of assisting the others must annually diminish, but its own embarrassments increase, so as to endanger its very existence, if ever it should be pressed by any calamity." To that position Mr. Francis said he fully subscribed. He asked, was there any visible influx, or cause of influx of wealth into Bengal. He called upon any man to state it, if he could. The state of the mint duties would, he said, furnish a strong presumptive proof of the declining trade of the country. In 1782 they stood at an actual receipt of 39,000 rupees; in 1787, the expected receipt is at only 13,000 rupees. The right hon gentleman had talked of lord Cornwallis's letter, and with an air of triumph had said lord Cornwallis gave an ex post facto approbation of the measure of sending out the four regiments to India. The House knew nothing of that. Why was not lord Cornwallis's letter read? Why should not the House know what lord Cornwallis said? Why should not the House read it? They ought to have the letter. The right hon. gentleman, in describing the probability

tleman know how dangerous it was to put the power of fixing the interest on the remittances into lord Cornwallis's hands? He did not mean to say that lord Cornwallis would abuse the power; but the thing itself was dangerous, since it held out such a strong temptation for abuse. Who that had a fortune to remit home, and invested with power to raise the exchange, would not do so? Besides must not the former subscribers be paid the dif ference? With regard to the right hon. gentleman's declaration, that the payment of the debt in India was compatible with the investment, and that the best mode of paying the debt was to send it home to England, if that system was to continue, and the whole of the investment, when sold here at home, was to go to the discharge of the bills drawn upon the Com pany's treasury from Bengal, what did the Company get by the investment? Mr. Francis concluded with declaring, that he could not think the affairs in India were in the prosperous situation described by the right hon. gentleman.

Mr. Grenville said, that the hon. gentleman had complained last year, that according to the estimates, the revenue did

not appear equal to the annual expen-mer occasions he had thought his right diture, and he had made the same com- hon. friend, from the natural turn of his plaint again; the hon. gentleman had been mind, apt to state matters respecting India answered by him last years and he must rather too sanguinely, but he sincerely receive the same answer again; " Accord- believed the reverse to be the fact in ing to the mode of making up the estimates, respect to the whole of his statement that it must ever appear that the annual expen- day. Sure he was, that in some of his diture exceeded the annual revenue, deductions, he had stated them too high, because the whole amount of the out- and particularly in that of the government standing debt was charged as a part of the customs. Mr. Grenville said, the canannual expenditure;" which made just the dour and fairness of mind of Mr. Hussey same difference as if the Chancellor of the had compelled him to do justice to lord Exchequer was in one of his budgets, to Cornwallis; the hon. gentleman had given state the whole of the unfunded debt as him an opportunity of declaring, that, to part of the year's expenses, against his that noble lord and sir Archibald Campways and means. His right hon. friend bell, this country in his opinion, owed obnear him had explained, in his mind, with ligations that she never could repay; and a clearness that amounted to conviction, when we considered in whose hands the what the actual amount of the annual re- government of India was, and what was venue was, and what the amount of the an- to be expected from their former conduct; nual expenditure; and he thought not only when we reflected on the character of from that statement, but on the face of general Meadows, who was going out those estimates, it appeared that the re- governor of Bombay, we might reasonably venue did exceed the expenditure. With hope that India would continue to prosper, regard to the other hon. gentleman's ar- and the affairs of that country be so pergument, that if there was a surplus of fectly restored, as to be put on a footing two millions, it should have been applied highly advantageous to the interest of the to the discharge of the Bengal debt, Company, and to those of Great Britain. surely that was neither a very just nor a very accurate argument. The fact was, the Bengal government had applied not only the surplus of two millions, but somewhat more, to the relief of the other settlements; hence the debts of the other -presidencies, as the hon. gentleman had admitted, were diminished, and the debt of Bengal increased. The hon. gentleman had next objected to one million a year being sent from Bengal to Madras, Bombay, and Bencoolen, and stated the total at 42,000 lacks of rupees. This was a strange error, since the real sum sent last year was but 24,000; to which, on account of the increased military establishments, were to be added five lacks more, making in the whole about thirty lacks. With regard to the deduction of the discount on Bengal paper in circulation, from 12 to 6 per cent. the hon. gentleman had said, that his right hon. friend had sunk upon the Committee the circumstance of the Bengal certificates bearing an interest of 8 per cent. But as the fact stood, it was from that very circumstance that his right hon. friend had said, that the discount being reduced to 6 per cent. the certificates were much about at par. Upon the whole, he thought his right hon. friend was not too sanguine in his statement, but extremely moderate. On for

Mr. Baring said, that in order to ascertain what was the real state of the comparative amount of the revenue and charges, he had extracted the annual revenue as it actually stood, and balanced that against the actual charge, and from such a mode of comparison, he found that Bengal absorbed the whole of its annual revenue, and something more. In the annual revenue, he included the million sent from Bengal bond debt; and increasing the number of certificates in circulation, in order to lessen the debts of Madras and Bombay. It might be a safe system in time of peace and quiet, but in time of war, it would be as ruinous a mode of proceeding as could possibly be adopted; because the pursuing such a system in a country, the resources of which were unequal to the annual disbursements, must draw on infinite difficulty and distress. What principally occasioned him to rise was that part of the right hon. gentleman's speech, in which, with an air of exultation, he had in a manner addressed himself to him, declaring, that in the last letter received from lord Cornwallis, his lordship gave the most cordial testimony of his approbation of the measure lately adopted, of sending out four additional regiments to India. He had not seen lord Cornwallis's letter, and therefore he could not